Do you think... - Page 3

gsdfanatic-  I think it's pretty accurate to say that anyone that knows a little dog psychology, training methods and behavior can get away with probably much more than the average person.  I believe someone who's been around dogs, training probably could pull it off.

I'm curious 2 moons. Care to visit? My dogs go balistic at my 1 neighbor who they hate with a passion, (I'm right there with them) and anyone who walks up to the kennel will get barked at. You'd think they would eat the mail man but really they love him, he's a nice guy and gives them treats if I have them out in the yard with me. You can't walk by at night or up to the yard without crazy barking going on most of the time. The meter reader sets off something akin to WW3 but I live by a few schools so we get allot of kids that walk by. The dogs usually don't bark at that unless it is a large group, on skateboard or something weird. Basicly they bark when they feel the need and most people this will detour. I believe a well versed dog person could come in and take my dogs though. They have not been trained to detour steeling of themselves so I can't really say otherwise.

My best friend had her 2 pit bulls stolen out of her backyard when she was out of town once. People do crazy things. Who is willing to face teeth and spit in hopes the dogs are bluffing?

I guess anything is possible....there are some really sick people out there. But I'm glad I live where I live....they might be able to get a few of the dogs out, but I would like to see them get all the way out of the driveway. 

Okay, I'd have to agree that someone who is familiar with dogs/training would probably have at least a chance.  I'm thinking someone who is leery of a strange dog, the dog will react differently to someone who is "suspicious or afraid".  If there is any hesitation the can read it and their reaction is totally different than toward someone who is confident.  So at this point I will have to change my answer to yes, a confident person could probably steal my GSD (I'll throw the terriers in for free, JUST KIDDING).  Really though, the terriers would probably bolt if given the opportunity, they don't like being picked up and I doubt if they would allow a stranger close enough without my husband or I being there.  So now I will have to go further still and say a confident person would have a better shot at stealing my GSD!  Thanks guys, now I'll be a nervous wreck!

So this leads to my next question. If I have a dog for gaurding purposes what can I do to make him as theft proof as possible, also how can I train him to alert to only true threats ( someone entering the yard) and does the dog need lots of bite training. Also, does it make sense to work him in prey driven bite work. Do you think someone with a piece of meat, tug or ball could distract your dog while they enter the yard?

Two moons, your information sounds interesting. I will look at that author's work.

Don, sorry for involving you in this, I was just explaining what spurred me to ask this question. The whole possibility of someone stealing the dog will always be there, but I had a shepherd who would play fetch with a theif, and one who will try to bite the thef. I should have asked how hard do you think it would be for someone to enter your yard, or steal your dog.

"If I have a dog for gaurding purposes what can I do to make him as theft proof as possible, also how can I train him to alert to only true threats ( someone entering the yard) and does the dog need lots of bite training."

To answer the first part of your question it would require you to not "overly socialize" him; meaning for example when you have guests around, put the dog away, don't let everyone pet and interact with your dog.  Although very intelligent you can not teach them that it's ok to let Joey from next door come in the yard to pet him because your dog "loves kids" but it's not ok if someone much bigger than Joey comes in to steal your tools from your shed.  If you want your dog to not let people in, be prepared that that means he will not let anyone in, not Joey the 10 yr old neighborhood kid, not your grandmother, sister, best friend, ect.  It takes more real scenario training in the dogs area you want him to protect and I wouldn't say it would require more bite training than normal, just consistant to teach the dog exactly what you expect him to do.  But it's really asking for trouble to go to that extreme if you live in a suburban area.  Major liability factor to consider.  If you go this route of training the dog will automatically associate everyone that comes through the gate without you as a "bad guy.

"Also, does it make sense to work him in prey driven bite work" 

When we are training for personal protection my trainer works the dog more in defense, civil aggitation rather than prey. But I'm still considerably new so maybe other's have a different view.

"Do you think someone with a piece of meat, tug or ball could distract your dog while they enter the yard?"

Unless your dogs been poison proofed it is highly probable that he could be distracted with food.

JMO

Agar, your first suggestion is what I have done with my last two dogs, and it seems to be working. Although I have a friend who comes by at least once a week, who is a dog person, and he can come in anytime although Sarah will bark at him at first.

I guess any sharp, low prey drive, good sized, defensive, confidant dog could be a good guard dog.

Please explain how you train a dog to consistantly refuse food from strangers? I doubt that it is possible but if it is I would like to know how to do it.

watsongsd-  One of my dogs we have been working on poison proofing since we got him.  If you don't have little kids it's actually a lot easier to do than one would think. lol  Before my baby started walking it was pretty much instilled in him that he was to take nothing from anyone's hand and we only fed his food or treats in his bowl.  We never give table scraps or "people food".  We had people try to entice him with a treat and if he tried to take it we corrected him.  We did this every time until he learned this was not acceptable.  One day on a walk my neighbor came over and with a meaty dog bone and asked if my dog could have a treat- I said sure but I doubt he'll take it, so the guy laughed and said "oh he'll take it it's a meaty bone, my dogs LOVE these things"; he took it in his mouth and dropped it at the mans feet, the guy was stunned and I was pleased that he refused the food.  Then we graduated to trying to teach him not to take food that someone might contaminate and toss over the fence or in the kennel...we would bait the yard and if he went over to take the food we'd correct him, same situations as before-consitancy over and over again until he gets it.  It was probably easier to do with him because he is not a food hog and not so much food driven.  It takes time to do but it can be done, just have to have patience.  It's a little harder to continue it now because my baby is literally stuffing cheerios in his mouth and she's too young to understand so who knows if I'm not looking if he sneaks one in here and there. lol 

My bitch we never poison proofed but she's got some weird quirks about her eating habits. lol  She was used to being fed in her kennel and will not eat if I place her bowl anywhere else.  If food falls out of her bowl she leaves it there.  And my pup there is probably no hope for him to even try it because he is a FOOD HOG and would probably eat himself to death if you let him.  All my mother in laws dogs are poison proofed, really poison proofed.  You could put a filet migone in front of them and they will not take it.  I've left food out on a table accessible to my dog just to see if I returned if it'd still be there....it's ALWAYS been there untouched so I guess to some degree it's worked.  These were just tips people gave me that I used and they've worked but some other's may have a better way.

A proper German Shepherd should already be leary of strangers,  and I dont think they need to be shown how to bite.  I believe they got that one figured out.   They need to be taught what a weapon in the hand is and sadly not to fear it but go after it. The training I speak of has nothing to do with balls tugs or schutzhund. 

A trained guard dog is a loaded gun in most American courts.  liability is an issue.

My dogs know the difference good or bad, socializing and bad guy are intended to reinforce what already comes natural to the dog.   

The dog has to think for its self.  Intelligence is important.  This is lacking in alot of dogs as far as I'm concerned.

Poison proofing is important for any dog owner these days but it is tricky and done wrong can ruin a dog, it could even cause a dog to refuse to eat if done wrong.

When someone comes to your home who your not comfortable with thats when you put the dog up. Its a signal to the dog and it leaves strangers guessing about the dog.    When you have friends or relatives over you introduce them to your dog thats another signal.  Same thing with your mailman, they hate getting bit and would be the one to call animal control.

Any dog can be stolen by someone who knows how.  Two dogs are a little different story.   Yet still its possible, just like its possible to catch a bear or a wolf in a trap. 

Finally, I'm in the USA and I have the right to bear arms.  I wouldnt ask my dog to do something I can do for myself.

When you know your within the law, never hesitate.   Just be sure you know what your doing and know your laws.

Two Moons- "When someone comes to your home who your not comfortable with thats when you put the dog up." If I'm uncomfortable with someone coming into my house the last thing I will do is put my dog up.  Putting him up is not gonna do me any good or help me if the situation turned ugly.  What I would do however is place my dog on a down/stay, he's not gonna break unless there's a reason for him to break or I tell him to.  In that case I need him to do his job to protect.  I put my dog away when I AM comfortable with a situation, have company, kids playing in the house ect...there's no reason for the dog to "hang out" with them unless he's just a family pet.  My dogs have a job to do and that's protect the family first, they are our pets second.

"A proper German Shepherd should already be leary of strangers,  and I dont think they need to be shown how to bite.  I believe they got that one figured out."  Yes they should be leary of strangers but I disagree that they don't need to be shown how to bite.  I have a very good friend with a gorgeous show line GSD, massive boy, very intimidating looking and barks like he's a killer when you are at the door-(he's a family companion and only has basic obedience) I can and have opened their front door with him barking at me and walked right in to him wagging his tail ready for some love.  They don't have it "figured out" if they have not been trained to know what to do.  You can challenge me on this one but I can assure you that others who have actually put it to the test or train dogs will attest that most dogs need the training.

My male is trained in personal protection the only thing I personally believe he KNOWS is if you are talking to me and you are a stranger you might not be "ok", so he's gonna watch every move you make just in case you're not. You're "ok" in his eyes as long as you do not get loud, too close or try to strike.  Then he will engage.  It's not that he's an "einstein" and figured this all out on his own-we've had to work on it with training.  That is where the dog IS "thinking for itself".  The thinking is happening while you're standing there as a stranger in close proximity of his handler just talking while he's watching trying to decifer if this situation is cool or not.  They take it all in.