Proper age for starting protection work - Page 3

Art,

thank you for this thread.

Erko lived in your kennel till the age of 6 months, so you know him very well.  What protection training program  would you suggest to accomplish the earliest possible SchH 3. If you think my question is too personal & time-consuming then I would appreciate a PM or an email.

Thank you.

Hi Steve,

You said that I give the answers, as though there really is such a thing when dogs are involved.  It sounds like what you are doing with your pup is teaching him as a game and then planning to bring seriousness later.

The other way that I was talking about is waiting completely for working with the helper.  The pup might be brought out at 7 months and make barking, a few misses with the sleeve and then a grip.  If all is well and the grip is good and the barking is strong, the dog does not come back to the helper until he is 12 months or so.  At that point the work begins.  Of course, as Pia was saying, the handler develops and rewards advantageous behaviors from the pup with play.

  The dog I am working now did not really start protection until he was about 12 months.  He just turned two and does a very nice SchH3 routine with a lot of intensity and aggression. 

Ziegen,

  I do not think that it so much "rushing" a dog, but rather allowing it to progress.  It seems to me that people often get stuck and end up doing one thing, the bark and hold for instance, forever.  Dogs learn very quickly, and if the helper is experienced, the work is correct without too many mistakes and the dog is being worked 2 or 3 times a week, the dog will be developed very quickly. 

Olga,

I'll e-mail you

  Of course reading the dog and proceeding accordingly is the MOST important factor.

I would love to hear some more ideas.   

By the way, the dog is not titled yet, as the retrieves are not finished nor is tracking, and of course everything, including protection, can stand to be tightened up. 

The person who helps me with the Dogs is the Belgian team Captain and is an International Judge, not only does he Judge over here in Europe but in the States and Canada etc, so i guess he is as good as they get,

Fred did no serious work until he was 12 months old, then we joined this club with this fellow who has bought him on at a tremendous rate, soon in a month or so he will be going for his BH and then who knows

Goran will soon start the more serious work

Wow, serious conversation on a serious topic.  I knew there were adults on this message board.  Where have you guys been hiding?

Like someone said, "what's the rush?".  This type of work is not cookie cutter either.  The young dog MUST not have pressure put on it too early.  If the young dog has a negative association with this work early, it can be imprinted, thus very difficult to over come, if at all.  There was a time when a dog could get a sch. 1 at 12 months.  Too many dogs were ruined by this rush to title mentality.  So the age was raised to 18 months.  I was mentored to believe that when the dog goes for its sch 1 it can do a sch 3 routine.  So if you are training to the  highest level, you are not just trying to get by or pass to the next level.  Lauz vd Maineiche, I believe obtained his sch 1 thru 3 in a season when he was 4 years old.

We have to be able to adapt our training to the dog.  Some dogs mature early and are ready for titling at an early age.  I'd love to see the work these young titled dogs are capable of doing.  Some sport trainers want the dog to bring the helper the sleeve after it has been slipped by the helper.  To me this is not a dog working in serious drives but a dog looking to play.

Puppies and young dogs should only be worked by the most experienced helpers.  Inexperienced helpers should only work on seasoned dogs.

So my 2 cents answer to the title question is, it depends on the dog and protection work must be defined ie. prey, pressure and how much pressure for how long a period.  The dog must be gripping full, confident and calm before adding pressure.

Kyle

there are many times to start protection work i believe it all starts in chase drive then after there confidence is fully established we work true protection aggression etc. but every part of it should be enjoyable for a dog. no pressure. we start our pups with rags and flirt poles and rats in the whelping box at 5 weeks up socialize and desensitize.

Steve Simpkins

www.haussimpkins.com

Senta,

  I agree with you 100% regarding dogs that lack the drives for the bite work.  There are plenty of other activities that they and their owners can enjoy.  It makes no sense to me try to make a dog something that he is not.  Also, a very good point regarding finding a good helper.

Sounds great Steve1.  Wish you the best of luck and good training. 

See Kyle?  Some adults are here, just waiting for something worth while to respond to.

Jason,

I reread my post regarding "serious" defense, and want to clarify.  Obviously, if the dog is in defense then to him it is  serious or he would not be in defense.  What I meant was that there are varying degrees and a 1year old certainly can not be worked the same as an older dog with a lot of experience.  None the less, he still perceives some level of threat.      

Somehow, it has been done again.  A serious and civil conversation relating to dogs.  I am truly amazed that it has been done twice in a row.       

Most of the training threads don't get hijacked. 

I agree with most of you here.  Some people don't understand that you start training for protection the moment you recieve the dog.  When you play tug, you are working with the dog.  You are building drive, teaching the dog to counter, have a nice calm full grip, and to be comfortable.  You read the dog and develop him along the way.  At first, it is primarily in prey.  Eventually when the time is right, with the right helper, you take the dog as far as he can go.  Every dog is different.  Like humans, they have their limitations. 

With that said, I usually have my dogs running 6 blinds and ready for the 3 at around 9 months.