Vom Banach K9 - Page 3

The dog that 1doggie2 referred to is completely inappropriate for everything but high security or antiterrorism "wet" entries

i agree. But we have already established my Mother walks to a different dummer, However, in her defense she had her reasons.

 I like a balanced dog, i know what the other side looks like.

But while I am on this subject. The PP dog was trained about 35 years ago and all of the ones I was introduced to at that time were trained in this manner. I see web sites for excutive PP and they look to be trained as he was "situational". Am I correct in assuming that?  for example one of the rules> He was trained on a door, if opened you had to annouce who you were before you opened the door, if you did this, no issues. Well, I did not think the kitchen door to take the trash to the garage, would be included as a door and he was asleep upstairs with my MOM. I was wrong,, when I opened the door to go back in he was at my throat, while I was pushing the door on him my Mom came running and begin pulling him from the other side. From that point on I never closed any door including a bathroom door for years, a door was a door. Are they still trained this way? Sch is not the same as PP.

If it was "your" PPD, you should've shot him.

All training should be black or white for the dog with no exceptions, I believe the best protection dog will not tolerate anyone other than the handler, but that's just me.

I see this is degrading into more unlikely stories so I will step out now.

dawgma, that is just the point I am making, He was black and white trained with no exceptions. You announced yourself at the door and no problem, just walking thru a door and he would not tolerate it,. He was not trained to see who was there, He was trained to react. he did his job, It was me who forgot. If you followed the rules of his training, you never had a problem with him. But in a family situation, reality is mistakes happen. This type of a dog can not be made into a pet. and should never be in a family situation.

I don't know why some folks have such a hard time believing that natural judgement is present genetically in some GSD lines. Some GSDs just have good sense as to when to trust a non-family memmber and when not too, what is appropriate and what is not, and all without any training.  I for one like obdiance training for the average GSD family pet.  For most homes, a Sch dog is not approriate or necessary. 

Years ago  I bought two different GS males from Larry Filo at different times.  Both were out of sires that on multiple occasions had hit handlers on the long so hard they cartwheeled them to the ground.  One was on the cover of the SV Magazine (the first American owned and handled Bundessieger Profung competitor to do so).  The puppy out of this dog grew up to have total soundness mentally.  We obediance trained him and he proved to be a very competent family protector (he stopped one daytime burglary in process while I was home in my office, chasing the burglar out- I made him stop at the front door because I was afraid of being sued.  There was a police report filed on this (this happened approx 13-14 years ago).  I took the dog put him on his lead and he tracked the perp 6 blocks right to his back door.  He was a 17 year old HS student.  My step daughter had remarked on the bus how she had sold over $100 in Pizzas for her class and she had it counted ouit on the kitchen table. He called on the phone 3X first, but calling plus had just come out and I didn't answer it because I didn't want to interrupt a business call. 

This dog lived to be 10 years old, was clearly an alpha male, loved our cat, loved the wild rabbits in the back yard, was good to our children and their friends, and to our friends and neighbors.  He proved himself a potent protector in real time tests in warehouse situations at night in addition to the burglary.  My friend, a well known AKC judge, believed as I did that this GSD never experienced fear but was also completely trustworthy.  We also knew a number of others who bought very sound GSDs from Larry Filo (Steinig Tal Kennels, Campbellsport, WI).   I just don't know why folks don't think this kind of temperament is normal for GSDs.  I don't know what Larry has now, but I know that back in the 70's and 80's almost all his dogs were like this. I would have expected nothing less than this from him.

I agree 100% with that statment....I just recently went to look at a female and when I got there she was tied up...she barked and paced and put on a great show....the owner and I approched and she barked at me and headed right at me and bit my hand, which was in my pocket. but the moment I stood my ground and shuushed her she backed off and turned tail. No doubt in my mind she woudl bite any stranger but she seems to be the one in control and is based on unsurity and fear. If channeled properly she may fool a few people and do soem nice wiork, but if seriouly challanged, she would fail.

The topic on "civil"....many years ago I had a very good friend from Italy who was a renowned GSD' breeder and trainer...his defination on civil was any dog that would bite the skin...meaning bare arm, leg what have you.....if you have cloth over it, like a shirt/pants, it can still be presieved as a "sleeve" in the eyes of a dog.

dogma, perhaps we can agree on one thing.  I have a 9 year old SG1, Sch2, KK1 male import out of Enzo living as a pet in our house.  I can assure you that if someone broke in the front door day or night he would not back down from a good fight and would fight to win.  I know because I have had a friend he didn't know test him.  He hasn't been worked in Sch for 6 years other than two separate courage tests which he passed perfectly with no warm ups or any practice ahead of time. He has stopped friends of mine from walking in the unlocked door by grabbing their wrist or ankle and growling until they stopped and holding them for me until I get to the door or tell him it's okay (all without hurting them).  I have other acquaintances with Sch trained showline dogs and this type of behavior is normal for them too, and they have lived as pets in the house with children also. I once sold a male out of him who grew up in a family situation and does the same thing without any training other obediiance classes at Petsmart and lots of socialization with other dogs and people camping.

I don't find this behavior exceptional for a well bred GSD from very good import working lines or showlines, and moreso I expect it.

Dawgma, you know nothing about dogs....that much is obvious.

That may be true, but I can smell bullshit from miles away.

dawgman:  I disagree with you   Try  Lago v Ortskern on for size....       he has a button and you push it and it turns him off....ask the helpers in the club he works in    , down in Houston....eat your body and lay at the feet of the women...now thats a dog...

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