German Shepherd killing a cow? - Page 3

I play poker on Wednesday nights with a cattle farmer that says he shoots every dog that comes on his property, no matter what kind or size.  He swears he has lost several calfs to dogs and claims he has seen them do it.

I know that it is possible, but I think that he is paranoid.  I put him down often, whenever the conversation is animals, telling him that he is paranoid and killing innocent dogs, but he is stubborn and says he is still goingto kill all that he sees.

Last week he was telling us how there were two dogs mating on his property and he shot the male off the back of the female.  He thought it was funny.  I said it was sick.

He has said that he gets some kind of reembursement from a government entity when he loses a calf to dogs, but said that it isn't enough.

Flip side of the coin is that I have Fainting Goats, the big ones, not the miniatures many have, and they are all three males with very long horns, like on a long horn steer.  Anyway, they each weigh about 150 to 200 lbs. and look formidable.  My female GSD's will attempt to attack them if given the chance but will back off when the goats turn and face them.  My male just goes right after them and gets behind them, and can and will hurt them.  I tested my females and the goats did not have a problem with them but when I tested my male, he went straight to business and the goats ran (they did not run from either female and stood their ground), and my male got one from behind and I outed him and he stopped.  From what I witnessed, he would and could kill one of those billy goats, or at least really mess it up.  I moved my goats to the "south forty" as we call it, and have a third female GSD that stays with them.  She is an American lines rescue that I have and she gets along with them okay.  We also have a miniature horse there with the goats and the one GSD female, and all get along okay.

I am sure, from what I have observed, that two or more dogs (they are always breaver when they have company) would kill a full grown goat or miniature horse, but a grown cow, I don't see it.  My neighbor has cows and my dogs bark at them, but I can tell that they don't really want to mess with the cows.  I can just tell.

Too little info provided to say one way or the other. How old was the calf ?  Was the calf alone, without mother or other cattle ?  How many aggressive Coyotes in the area ?  Coyotes are opportunists and will go after the least threatening and most easy to kill animals.  How was the calf killed ?  Was it just killed and left ?  Coyotes kill to eat, not for sport as a rule. So, was some of the calf eaten or not ?  
4 dogs is a pack and a dangerous one at that.  They become bolder and more aggressive, feeding off the boldest one and encouraging each other as there is power in numbers. They will eventially get into trouble and once this starts it is difficult to eliminate, there is just to much fun and power in it for them.
RuegersDad, not meaning to be oppositional but if this is cattle country and we are talking about this farmers/ranchers livelyhood then he certainly does have the right to shoot any dog HE PERCEIVES may kill his animals. Since we have none of this information it is impossible to discern his motives.
The dog needs to stay home, period.
If I was going to place a bet ( which I wouldn't because of so much missing info )  I would bet on the pack of dogs, not the one dog by herself ( especially if she has shown no aggression issues, as it takes alot of aggression to kill a calf of any size with or without mom around).  If she is running with 3 other dogs then I would say your odds just went up enormously.
I would not bet on Coyotes until I saw the calf and knew the other factors.
My dad raised cattle for many years in cattle country. His dog was shot in the stomach and head. She made it home, was taken to the vet and ultimately lived. The bullet could not be removed from her head, where it remains to this day.  Though she did not run deer or bother animals as a rule and was not in a pack, my dad did not gripe about it.  in cattle country everyone knows that that is the risk you take with a dog that runs. 
P.S. She is still happy and healthy 8 years later ( she is 9 now). She loves to keep the Coyotes away but no longer runs around the country.

olskoolgsds,

Excellent post.  You nailed it.

1doggie2,  do you work in Claims for one of the RR's?  I was a conductor for U.P. for 30yrs. Walked lots of trains in Prairies. Lots of those nice Coyotes.

A large dog can easily kill a calf, I've seen it happen.  I sold a small, 40 lb 5 month old  Malamute puppy bitch to a rural area where she killed a lamb larger than herself and placed it on her owner's doorstep.  Then they believed me that dogs need fences and built one as they promised.  Dogs no not normally eat their prey unless they are very hungry. The kill is done purely for sport and to satisfy the chasing instinct that is triggered by animals running away in fear. Since this is a high drive breed, who would there ever be any doubt that a GSD could or would kill a calf? No way to prove it was not a coyote or another predator, the reason why it is not very bright to allow dogs to roam free in livestock country. Duh......not rocket science.

Multiple dogs hunt in packs like wolves and can bring down a docile cow. A heifer or a bull might be harder, but if the pack is large enough and determined hunters, it can certainly be done.

Why would anyone allow any dog to run free and bother livestock? Here in PA is it legal to shoot to kill any dog that is worrying livestock or chasing deer.  I suspect that is a law in most states, isn't it?

Most any mutt likes to chase cows.  I'm not Ben Cartwright, but I run a few head, and I have seen lots of what is happening in the pic below..

The thing is, Coyotes most always feed on their kill.  Unless they are interupted, they would have probably gutted the bovine, and eaten the organs and lungs, and a lot of the muscle tissue.

for your peace of mind, and possibly the life of your dog, keep her confined when you're not home and work on an infallible recall when you are home and she's loose. it is absolutely the right of any rancher/breeder to shoot dogs on their property that may be worrying/killing their livestock.

do NOT allow her to simply "run"; when she hooks up w/3 other dogs, it IS a pack, and there's nothing worse in ranch country. they can easily take a calf/sheep/cow down calving, even a non-aggressive cow (like a dairy cow). if you can't afford a fence, then at least get a kennel for her.

Just in case you are interested, I decided to put up a fence.  We also decided to let Portia, our GSD, stay indoors while we are home.  I am guessing she was raised as an inside dog because she is perfectly content staying in our home at night.

I was lucky enough to find a rancher in the area that has gas wells being put up in his property so he had some fencing that needed to be taken away, so I obliged.  He sold it to me for a very reasonable price and now our dog has some running room when we are gone.

Thanks to each of you for your input.  It seems we have gotten very lucky with this dog, and we intend to keep her for as long as she'll let us.  Our next obstacle is the heartworm situation, but the more I look into it the more I believe the procedure won't be necessary.  Again, thanks to all of you.

JCC - new GSD lover ...

Good for you, JCC. You have proven yourself to be a responsible GSD owner.

You've done good!