Different training philosophies: sport dog vs real dog - Page 3

wow Cledford, very nice post

Don,

I think we are on the same page I just did not explain 100%.  I am at work so often times I get interrupted and lose my thought.  I am not saying prey is all bad.  Most dogs have it and a lot of it.  Atleast the ones I have seen.  I have also seen trainers that only train in prey.  It is not for me.  I do use a force retrieve. Agree you work with what you have. 

My way of thinking is Schutzhund means protection dog.  Protection should be just that.  It is not play time, I dont want my dog in the drive where it is a high pitch yip.  I want him in a serious mode.  In my experience prey comes natural.  I understand my dog will work in it, I just dont train him to work in it.  I hope that makes sense.

I think what I got caught up on most was the sleeve being the reward.  That is why the dogs are  so damn sleeve happy.  That appears to be the biggest criticism from most people..."oh that dog is sleeve happy" Well then dont train that way. That was the point I was trying to make.  My dog does not do protection work for a sleeve.  He does it to protect.  He could give two S&*ts about the sleeve.  He is taught the agitator is the threat, the sleeve is not a factor.

vargas,

It sounds as though you are training with one of those "for real PP" trainers. I know you are in my area. I am interested in who you are training with if you don't mind sharing?

GARD,

Email me privately, if you dont mind.

Shawn

s_vargas54@yahoo.com

There is a lot of good information here.   This is not cookie cutter type of work. Schutzhund trials are for titles.  THrough out the dogs training life varing training and scenarios can help you evaluate the dog.  Footstep tracking into the woods and doing a sit and bark when the bad guy is found. Aggitation without the sleeve.  Many trainers do not know how to move from prey training to defence or how to build aggression.  Many trainers do not know how to train in anything but defence.  Many dogs are ruined by trainers that are on trick ponies.  Then say the dog is not any good because the dog does not work under their method.

Schutzhund training is believed to be just training for a sport.  True schutzhund training is a methodology for evaluating a working dogs abilites to move onto service work.

Kyle 

Ditto to Kyle .....   Schutzhund was a test to evaluate a dogs working abilites ...now it is called a sport...but this is what it was orginally for to weed out  inferior dogs out of the breeding stock...finally someone with some sense...to the person above the officer trained his dog to be choked with a pinch to let go of the bad guy....this is funny ...the officer had no control over the dog and this was the only thing he could do..not a preferred way to make a dog out something just a last resort.. control again he had no control .... that is like someone who fell down a flight of stairs and saying that was  what I wanted to do it is the fastest way instead of walking ...  Marlene

IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU WANT OUT OF YOUR DOG. IT ALSO DEPENDS ON YOUR DOG. IF YOU ARE IN THIS TO HAVE FUN AND COMPETE THEN HAVE FUN AND COMPETE THERE IS NO NEED TO WORRY ABOUT YOUR DOG RETURNING TO A POTENTIAL REAL LIFE THREAT AND WANTING TO PLAY MORE. HOWEVER IF YOU HAVE OR WANT A REAL WORKING DOG IT WILL DEPEND ON THE DOG. HOWEVER TRAINING SHOULD STAY FUN FOR YOUR DOG I WOULD NOT ADVISE 100% CIVIL WORK ALL THE TIME. WORKING DOGS NEED IT. BUT KEEP IT FUN FOR YOU AND YOUR DOG.

MY ANSWER IS IF YOU WANT A SPORT DOG SELECT AND TRAIN ONE. IF YOU WANT A "REAL" DOG SELECT AND TRAIN ONE OF THOSE.

EVERY ONE SHOULD CHECK OUT SDA  IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN A MORE NONSPORT SPORT. www.sdachattanooga.com/service_dogs_of_america.htm

Well said, Kyle. I couldn't agree more.

SS

Good comments/advice cledford and Kyle, I for one am glad to here remarks that are just plane common since not a bunch of BS. Like reading remarks from you guys.

Interesting topic Mel,

This responce always kills me, "MOST K-9 units do not teach the aus  and use the choke out method . It is not taught all that much (ausing) for safty reasons". This is such a bogus responce.  Police k9's all over the world are trained to out except in the USA..  I can not tell you how many times I have been to law enforcement only seminars and the dogs do not out.  When German Police K9 trainers hear this they always ask why not?  They do not understand this type of thinking, it is false.  It is just one less thing to have to train the dog in order to pass the final exam.  It's embarrassing and is a flawed philosphy.  Most USA LEO's do not understand the difference between schutzhund training and schutzhund the sport.  Mike Diehl, Gerald Groos, Bernhard Flinks and Horst Dieter Trager do. I'm in law enforcement but not a K9 handler.  I train schutzhund as a methodology, not for high sport.  Our training allows us to evaluate a dogs strengths and weaknesses.

Kyle