Baltimore K9 Video...Cruelty or Acceptable? - Page 3

The bad part is we only know nothing about this other than a video made up of several clips put together.. my problem is with the trainer who le tthe dog get into this state which may or may not be the officier in the video.  I suspect he is not the trainer but is trying to intervene. As I stated earlier this dog will likely end up being put down.. I disagree that this dog is beyond help, it will take some time and hard work but it can be done imo.

Exactly what state is this dog in? This really is not a big deal.

gard, some are good trainers, key word some. this guy on the video was not that some.

desertrangers, you are correct i am a dealer of tri-tronics (i am offering sales specials for more info contact me by email). the e-collar is a tool and a very good one when used properly. it can also be misused. (duh!!!)  

desertrangers, really, the dog is out of control!!! no kidding. yes the dog is out of control  that is very clear. the handler is also out of control.

do i use prong collars and e-collars, yep. i use them alot for finishing work. i even use the small prong collars on my puppies to teach them to move with leash pressure ( i don't pop them) and not to pull on a leash (they are only allowed to pull on a harnes). it works great. when i first got into sch i had a dog that was crazy in the bite work and many people told me i would really have to crank on her to get the ob. i have found this to be totally not accurate. with her and many dogs since the more driven they are for the bite the better the control i have got on them. it's as simple as this if the dog wants to bite they have to listen to me. if they do as i say they get to bite. in our club all the control work is started on a flat collar (no prong or e-collar on sometimes without a leash). we take the dog onto the field give a simple commad ( sit, down) the dog has the option what to do next. if the dog ignores the command (which they always do at first) the helper drops the sleve and walks away. the dog is then reminded what was asked of him and when the dog complies (it can take a little while) the behaviour is marked and the protection work begins. the more driven the dog is the better this type of training works. we will later use corrections to eliminate unwanted behaviours (like bumping) or for faster responses.

from my experience this way is way more effective at getting control on a dog that wants to bite. you will get a dog that starts offering control. what that dumb ass was doing was not dog training i don't care what the history between the handler and the dog is or was. if the officer contiues down this road  of so called control work he will probly get eaten and then the dog will get passed to some other jack ass k-9 handler that thinks he is big enough and tough enough to show this dog who is boss. really all they are doing is creating a dangerous dog that will have to be put down.

what i'm really angry about is that this video is probly being downloaded right now by some nazi animal right activist that is planning on sending it to PETA. they will then eventually use it as evidence against the police training programs and probly against the protection sports. these k-9 handlers and all other dog handlers  that use or see this as accectable dog training need to understand that there are people who are fighting to have our dog sports and dog progams banned.  so why give these idiots the tools to get our dog programs banned when we can just change how we train. there are much better ways to train dogs then what that guy was doing.

So Sorry I disagree..yes the dog is high drive and not controlable but it is a very good dog and the right trainer could likely win this dog over and he would be fine. i am not saying it will be easy. I am saying without all the history and remember this video was a series of clips so we are not seeing much of what was going on. I am not saying this was a good trainer or not because i do not know for sure.. i don't even think he was cruel to the dog, he was hard but not extreme.  We all have different opinions i understand but this is my opinion.

I have had dogs like this and had periods during training that I had to control them being over jealous.

i agree w/goldenelk, alot of people  really misinterpret what cesar milan does and forget the  parts where he says that you must train your dog, not just change a behavior. however, w/regards to the handler in this video, why does he continue to use a "technique" that clearly does not work? i'll leave it to the people who do police dog training to really disect this video, but it sure looks bad on the part of the handler. just a question, why doesn't someone else step in w/advice etc?

This video has sure been around a long time.  Something PETA loves, I'm sure.  The general public sees this and screams foul play, poor abused dog.  I'm with GARD,  not cruel but unacceptable.  The dog was in drive, the drive needed to be capped.  The dog was not trying to "dominate", so all the baloney alpha roll crap would never acheive anything in this situation.  The handler would have been smarter to put the dog up for a couple of minutes than doing what his "trainer" was telling him to do.

Again, we all must make alot of assumptions without having any history to go on.  i suspect this dog had a handler who lost control and this officier stepped in trying to take control. so easy to pass judgement isn't it !    Am I the only one with enough brains to see the big picture?  What do you think happens to these dogs if they can't be used for work?  Any volunteers to take pocession of all these type dogs and care for them the rest of their lives?

DR - true, noone here knows the circumstances that resulted in this video, but that doesn't diminish the fact that the dog in the video is obviously being repeatedly mishandled. If this is what it takes to get the dog to obey, maybe being put down IS the best case senerio just to save if from a life time of abuse. The handler was throwing the dog to the ground like it was a full size man!

So Sorry I disagree..yes the dog is high drive and not controlable but it is a very good dog and the right trainer could likely win this dog over and he would be fine. i am not saying it will be easy. I am saying without all the history and remember this video was a series of clips so we are not seeing much of what was going on. I am not saying this was a good trainer or not because i do not know for sure.. i don't even think he was cruel to the dog, he was hard but not extreme.  We all have different opinions i understand but this is my opinion.

I agree with DR on this one. We aren't seeing the whole story. The dog did not seem to be hurt or even cowed by the treatment, it just bounced right back from what I could see. Maybe the trainer is used to working with lower-drive dogs, and needs to learn how to handle a Mal.

Sunsilver...good observation...

This would be a great police dog with the right trainer.. remember, many use agitation to ensure the dog is not equipment trained and in a life and death situation they want a dog they can count on to perform and that does not quit easily. The dam of my current 8 year old bitch was hard as a rock and one night she refused to kennel up so iput her on a leash and had to drag her fighting into her kennel. i had to repeat this over and over for two hours basically dragging her by the neck fighting like a tiger. finally after dozens of attempts she heeled and followed me into the kennel. she never cowed she never rrefused to kennel up again. I was drenched in sweat and totally exhausted.But if she had won (she was about 1 year old) it would have been a lifelong problem.