RTT not a puppy mill. - Page 3

True

I sure agree patches...it is the American dream after all isn't it?  Maybe the definition of "puppy mill" is what really needs to be defined.  I see a puppy mill as you presented it in the start of this post.  Others see it as "if  you don't better the breed you're running a puppy mill".  Or if you make a profit you're running a puppy mill.  My feeling is that RTT is running a respectable kennel and is charging what the traffic will bear.  And there is nothing wrong with that.  It's the places that do what they did to those poor dogs in the links you posted that are the true puppy mills.  I also noticed in the movie that the first auction was run by Mennonites or Amish.  I found that rather disturbing.

lol - for the sake of the topic you can email me for the info if you like...the email is in my profile.

~Cate

I have no problem with somebody making money if they have a plan for breeding.  Not just breeding for the sake of breeding.   Breed dogs that have proven themselves somehow, someway, not just based on who great great great great great grand daddy was.  They probably do mean well and believe they are continueing a legacy.  At least at this point I hope that's the case.  Besides, I bet most that "make money at it" are at best breaking even.    By the time you pay for good food, vet bills, worming, vaccinations, emergencies, shelter, utilities, training, transportation, kennels, crates, micro chips, x-rays, registrations..... 

I do think it's the deffinition that is causing the confussion here.

Oh heck, maybe I'm just jealous I don't have a RRT decendant to use in my breeding program.  

(Patches, do a search on Shilo shepherds sometime here, they have been discussed quite a bit.  As well as Panda shepherds.)

lol - actually I am the guilty one - not patches - I was just saying he could email me for the links and articles :)...but I said something first.  I wont let it happen again :)

~Cate

animules,

I meant that it wasn't on the listings (shiloh). I also don't have a RTT decendant.  I agree tho, we might have our definitions mixed up here.

Ceph,

Who were you refering to on e-mail you?

ceph,

I must of been typing while you were posting your message.

John

lol - that whole typing things a little late is happening alot today :p

I dont think so much that the definitions are mixed up but rather that they are open to personal views.  My dad always said there is a difference between truth and fact - fact is that water is made from one part hydrogen and two parts oxygen, truth is what we believe in and is very much open to our own interpretation....and truth is almost always variable from person to person.

We all have different truths on what a Puppy Mill is and what is acceptable or not . :)

Just a bit of Dad's good old school wisdom.

~Cate

I like the way your dad thinks

Okay, I wasn't going to do this. I've had a very long day, and I'm tired, and at first I thought, "hey, I don't want to expose my friends to ridicule."

I attended a tracking seminar with the Shiloh Sheperd folks about a month ago, and I had a GREAT time. The lady who hosted the seminar already has her Shiloh titled in tracking. Our teacher was a police officer, and he did an excellent job.

Anyway...the Shiloh Shepherd was started by breed founder, Tina Barber. Tina is 3rd generation in the dog business. Her parents raised GSD's in Germany. When Tina moved to New York state from Germany, neither she nor her family was impressed with the American Shepherd, and eventually (when old enough) she began to breed her own line of Shepherd, choosing the traits she remembered from the dogs in Germany. This was in the early 60's. She trained many of her dogs and other people's dogs for Schutzhund, SAR and personal protection, as well as for the show ring and obedience.

In the 70's things took a sharp turn for the worse with the American GSD. If you read Fred Lantings books and articles, you'll know that this was mainly due to Lance of Fran-Jo, and his son (forget the name). Everyone wanted to breed to these two dogs, but too much inbreeding is never a good idea. Problems began to crop up like crocuses after a spring rain: bad feet, overangulated dogs that could barely walk,  and hip and elbow dyspasia. Lance's son was sharp-shy, and he produced a lot of offspring with this trait. Tina was appaled by what was happening.

Until that point, Tina's dogs had still been AKC registered GSD's. Finally, she realized that if she wanted to preserve the good traits of the dogs she was breeding, she was going to have to make them a seperate breed. This also freed her up to outcross to allow genetic diversity. I don't know the details of all the outcrosses, but the two most recent ones were to Hoofprint on the Move, an white GSD, and Artus, and Altedeutscher Schaeferhund. Basically, she has chosen outcrosses that are related to the GSD.

The Shiloh is now recognized as a rare breed under development. The dogs do show in ARBA shows, and many are champion pointed. No dog from Tina's kennel is allowed breeding papers until it passes its OFA, and is known to be free of any undersireable inheritable traits such as soft ears, hook tail, shy temperment, etc. Tina maintains a detailed database  on the dogs to track problems, and has managed to decrease the incidence of hip dysplasia by a significant percentage (if I weren't tired, I'd look up the figures...) She has a LMI program (Litter Mate Information) that tracks each pup bred by the ISSR, and records illnesses and inherited problems. She personally does temperment evaluations on as many litters as possible, travelling long distances to the homes of the breeders, and helping to place each pup in the most suitable home.  She is a fanatic about these dogs, and has worked for 4 decades to develop this breed. You will find few people as knowledgeable about dogs as she is.

For those of you who may be interested, here is her illustrated breed standard, which shows she does have a clear vision of what she's breeding for: http://www.shilohshepherds.info/issrShilohShepherdIllustratedBreedStandardDonorsFinal.htm