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by Prager on 11 June 2011 - 00:06
The invasion which i have described to you where the invaders wore cop uniforms also happened during the daytime . Difference without distinction.
It happens all the time elsewhere too:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/jan/25/police-nab-5-accused-planning-las-vegas-home-invas/
http://www.khou.com/home/Missouri-City-police-investigate-second-home-invasion-in-which-suspects-posed-as-cops-118933459.html
Hans
It happens all the time elsewhere too:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/jan/25/police-nab-5-accused-planning-las-vegas-home-invas/
http://www.khou.com/home/Missouri-City-police-investigate-second-home-invasion-in-which-suspects-posed-as-cops-118933459.html
Hans
by BabyEagle4U on 11 June 2011 - 00:06
What is wrong with this picture ? Hummmm July 4th 2011 will be HOT !! LMAO
Anyone read the Old Farmers Almanac ? I swear, everything is connected. It's like playing connect the dots. CRAZY.
by Myracle on 11 June 2011 - 00:06
No, Guereno's relatives were murdered by home invaders at 11:30pm.
The links you provide happened in other states.
There is zero evidence to support the idea that Guerena believed that anyone other than the Police were at his door, aside from his wife's statements which are discounted when you consider her additional claims that there were NO sirens and NO Police announcement at the front door.
Evidence clearly disproves her statement, and any reasonable prudent man would have belived that the Police were at his door in those circumstances.
The links you provide happened in other states.
There is zero evidence to support the idea that Guerena believed that anyone other than the Police were at his door, aside from his wife's statements which are discounted when you consider her additional claims that there were NO sirens and NO Police announcement at the front door.
Evidence clearly disproves her statement, and any reasonable prudent man would have belived that the Police were at his door in those circumstances.
by Prager on 11 June 2011 - 00:06
The facts are clear?
Wow. To whom ? You?
Point a gun at a Cop, you get shot.
And bunch of innocent people will have to dodge bullets?
Do you even understand what I am saying?
You can not convict and insult a person before the facts are out, before all the facts and all the investigation is finished and the guy is convicted. Maybe you are right, but maybe you are wrong, but there is no way that you can asses that at this point. It is immoral to do so.
You have to wait for the process to go through all the facts and then you can pass you judgements on such person and even on the justice and it's process, which convicted or exonerated him.
Give the guy chance he is dead.
That is called JUSTICE.
That is what is moral and ethical.
Prager Hans
Wow. To whom ? You?
Point a gun at a Cop, you get shot.
And bunch of innocent people will have to dodge bullets?
Do you even understand what I am saying?
You can not convict and insult a person before the facts are out, before all the facts and all the investigation is finished and the guy is convicted. Maybe you are right, but maybe you are wrong, but there is no way that you can asses that at this point. It is immoral to do so.
You have to wait for the process to go through all the facts and then you can pass you judgements on such person and even on the justice and it's process, which convicted or exonerated him.
Give the guy chance he is dead.
That is called JUSTICE.
That is what is moral and ethical.
Prager Hans
by Myracle on 11 June 2011 - 00:06
You stop being innocent when you point a gun at a Law Enforcement Officer.
It's illegal, and the Officer has the legal right, and the moral obligation, to act to remove the threat.
It's illegal, and the Officer has the legal right, and the moral obligation, to act to remove the threat.
by mobjack on 11 June 2011 - 00:06
Mudwick that was an excellent post you made a page or two ago. 
BE, sorry but you are way off base. This has nothing to do with the Second Amendment.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
His right to keep and bear arms was NOT infringed, in any way shape or form. No one denied this man his weapons or forced him to relinquish them without just cause.
Warrants are served all across this country and SWAT teams do no-knock entry every single day. People DO get shot. Innocent and guilty alike. No one screams and cries this loud over any of the others so why this one? Because he was a Marine and the cops shot him? The man was a suspected drug dealer and had already been convicted of a firearms charge. Multiple arrests for drugs, FTA's and even an assault with a deadly weapon charge. A disgrace to the Corp and all his brothers in uniform. How much screaming would be going on if the cops had hesitated or held their fire and the Marine killed a few of them? Or would he be getting off by claiming PTSD?
Marine or not, he exercized his right to keep and bear arms. He also exercized his right to be stupid and do it with the SWAT team coming in the door. Stupid is as stupid does. I hate to see the young man die but unless there is concrete evidence of wrongdoing by the police, I don't see what all the fuss is about.
BE, sorry but you are way off base. This has nothing to do with the Second Amendment.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
His right to keep and bear arms was NOT infringed, in any way shape or form. No one denied this man his weapons or forced him to relinquish them without just cause.
Warrants are served all across this country and SWAT teams do no-knock entry every single day. People DO get shot. Innocent and guilty alike. No one screams and cries this loud over any of the others so why this one? Because he was a Marine and the cops shot him? The man was a suspected drug dealer and had already been convicted of a firearms charge. Multiple arrests for drugs, FTA's and even an assault with a deadly weapon charge. A disgrace to the Corp and all his brothers in uniform. How much screaming would be going on if the cops had hesitated or held their fire and the Marine killed a few of them? Or would he be getting off by claiming PTSD?
Marine or not, he exercized his right to keep and bear arms. He also exercized his right to be stupid and do it with the SWAT team coming in the door. Stupid is as stupid does. I hate to see the young man die but unless there is concrete evidence of wrongdoing by the police, I don't see what all the fuss is about.
by Myracle on 11 June 2011 - 00:06
'Cause when you kick in doors in distant lands and gun down unarmed brown people, you're a war hero.
When you do it to armed suspects in the United States, you're a facist, brutal Police force.
When you do it to armed suspects in the United States, you're a facist, brutal Police force.
by Slamdunc on 11 June 2011 - 00:06
Hans,
I haven't convicted anyone. As I have stated before I take it very seriously and personally when people accuse the Police of misconduct when they don't have all the facts. I find it insulting when you and others talk out of your ass with no basis or information on how a Search Warrant should be executed. I have been on the entry team for over a hundred search warrants so I have some experience with them. I have had dope dealers point assault rifles at us as we came through the door. I have been there and find these threads extremely frustrating. It is easy to second guess things from your keyboard days and weeks later.
How about I start a thread saying that "Communism" was great for the Czech people and things over there weren't really too bad? That is something you have some experience with and I don't. You would find it very irritating for me to comment on that with out the right facts or first hand experience. Judging by your personal attacks on this thread, I suppose you are mad at me for disagreeing with you in regards to Janice Bartmess and the fact I deleted the posts I had on your forum and no longer post there. I still think you are wrong in how you handled that.
So you had a bet that I wouldn't answer your questions. Well, big flippin deal! I don't really care what you think or whom you are betting with thinks. I am very upfront and if someone asks me an intelligent, sincere, well thought out question I will gladly answer it. I have no problem offering my views in a clear concise manner. I will not respond to "loaded" questions with an obvious agenda for your satisfaction.
Hans, if you want to argue with me that's fine just be clear about your motives. I had initially thought very highly of you and even more so after I met you. You were charming and gracious and so was Debbie. I had heard mixed things about you from various GSD people including some from the Scottsdale area. I am my own man and decided to see for myself and make up my own mind. After a couple of incidents that have happened recently and now this thread; I have made up my mind. I really do not want to make this personal as you have done in your earlier post to me. You have my cell number and I will be happy to express my feelings to you over the phone if you care to call me. I think that would be the more polite way to do it than on an international dog forum where you do business. Other than that I am done with you. I hope the wager you placed was worthwhile and you won a good amount of money. Take some of those winnings and give me a call and I will let you know what I really think about all of this.
Jim
I haven't convicted anyone. As I have stated before I take it very seriously and personally when people accuse the Police of misconduct when they don't have all the facts. I find it insulting when you and others talk out of your ass with no basis or information on how a Search Warrant should be executed. I have been on the entry team for over a hundred search warrants so I have some experience with them. I have had dope dealers point assault rifles at us as we came through the door. I have been there and find these threads extremely frustrating. It is easy to second guess things from your keyboard days and weeks later.
How about I start a thread saying that "Communism" was great for the Czech people and things over there weren't really too bad? That is something you have some experience with and I don't. You would find it very irritating for me to comment on that with out the right facts or first hand experience. Judging by your personal attacks on this thread, I suppose you are mad at me for disagreeing with you in regards to Janice Bartmess and the fact I deleted the posts I had on your forum and no longer post there. I still think you are wrong in how you handled that.
So you had a bet that I wouldn't answer your questions. Well, big flippin deal! I don't really care what you think or whom you are betting with thinks. I am very upfront and if someone asks me an intelligent, sincere, well thought out question I will gladly answer it. I have no problem offering my views in a clear concise manner. I will not respond to "loaded" questions with an obvious agenda for your satisfaction.
Hans, if you want to argue with me that's fine just be clear about your motives. I had initially thought very highly of you and even more so after I met you. You were charming and gracious and so was Debbie. I had heard mixed things about you from various GSD people including some from the Scottsdale area. I am my own man and decided to see for myself and make up my own mind. After a couple of incidents that have happened recently and now this thread; I have made up my mind. I really do not want to make this personal as you have done in your earlier post to me. You have my cell number and I will be happy to express my feelings to you over the phone if you care to call me. I think that would be the more polite way to do it than on an international dog forum where you do business. Other than that I am done with you. I hope the wager you placed was worthwhile and you won a good amount of money. Take some of those winnings and give me a call and I will let you know what I really think about all of this.
Jim
by BabyEagle4U on 11 June 2011 - 00:06
* "No, Guereno's relatives were murdered by home invaders at 11:30pm." *
-- What are you talking about. The people killed in the home invasion were Manuel and Cynthia Orozco in March 2010. Jose's brothers are Jesus and Alejandro, Alejandro married the lone survivor of that home invasion. How exactly is this probable cause for execution of Jose ? And this is just one question.
This whole Manuel and Cynthia Orozco case has been reopened. Interesting times we live.
GO MARINES !!!
-- What are you talking about. The people killed in the home invasion were Manuel and Cynthia Orozco in March 2010. Jose's brothers are Jesus and Alejandro, Alejandro married the lone survivor of that home invasion. How exactly is this probable cause for execution of Jose ? And this is just one question.
This whole Manuel and Cynthia Orozco case has been reopened. Interesting times we live.
GO MARINES !!!
by Prager on 11 June 2011 - 00:06
No, Guereno's relatives were murdered by home invaders at 11:30pm.
FYI I am not talking about that invasion.
The links you provide happened in other states.
There is zero evidence to support the idea that Guerena believed that anyone other than the Police were at his door, aside from his wife's statements which are discounted when you consider her additional claims that there were NO sirens and NO Police announcement at the front door.
Yes they happen here and other states too. So what?
Zero evidence? How do you know what the guy believed?
He is dead!!
Evidence clearly disproves her statement, and any reasonable prudent man would have belived that the Police were at his door in those circumstances.
That is another assumption which you are making. She may not have heard it. People in stressful situation often do not hear or see all sots of things. Or do not remember it. That is why they tell cops not to put any statements down until later. I am sure Jim can tell us about that. Also see this.
http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/06/what-we-dont-notice/
Here is the actual video of the above described test which about 50%(!!!) people fail. :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo
Prager Hans
FYI I am not talking about that invasion.
The links you provide happened in other states.
There is zero evidence to support the idea that Guerena believed that anyone other than the Police were at his door, aside from his wife's statements which are discounted when you consider her additional claims that there were NO sirens and NO Police announcement at the front door.
Yes they happen here and other states too. So what?
Zero evidence? How do you know what the guy believed?
He is dead!!
Evidence clearly disproves her statement, and any reasonable prudent man would have belived that the Police were at his door in those circumstances.
That is another assumption which you are making. She may not have heard it. People in stressful situation often do not hear or see all sots of things. Or do not remember it. That is why they tell cops not to put any statements down until later. I am sure Jim can tell us about that. Also see this.
http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/06/what-we-dont-notice/
Here is the actual video of the above described test which about 50%(!!!) people fail. :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo
Prager Hans
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