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by Prager on 10 June 2011 - 17:06
2. Couldn't they arrest the guy elsewhere with parallel search warrant at this house?
3 it is not a judgement call . If police or anybody shoots an innocent person it is always morally , ethically and legally wrong that is even if it is in self defence. IN USA you do not have right to shoot or evne endanger innocent person in order to protect yourlesf.
Hans
by Keith Grossman on 10 June 2011 - 18:06
"2. Couldn't they arrest the guy elsewhere with parallel search warrant at this house?"
No.
"3. it is not a judgement call."
Did I miss somewhere where anyone except the person pointing the assault rifle at the authorities was injured or killed?
No.
"3. it is not a judgement call."
Did I miss somewhere where anyone except the person pointing the assault rifle at the authorities was injured or killed?
by Keith Grossman on 10 June 2011 - 18:06
"Doesn't matter if he was innocent or not at this point.
REALLY!!!!!!!???????????"
Yes, really. Look, I'm not crazy about a lot of what law enforcement does in this country and have, in fact, had them unlawfully enter my residence without a warrant after I explicitly refused them access. What I didn't do was pick up a gun and shoot it out with them and guess what? I'm still here, alive and kicking! There is a time and place for fighting that battle and that time and place is later...in a courtroom.
REALLY!!!!!!!???????????"
Yes, really. Look, I'm not crazy about a lot of what law enforcement does in this country and have, in fact, had them unlawfully enter my residence without a warrant after I explicitly refused them access. What I didn't do was pick up a gun and shoot it out with them and guess what? I'm still here, alive and kicking! There is a time and place for fighting that battle and that time and place is later...in a courtroom.
by Prager on 10 June 2011 - 18:06
2. not accrding to my informations. Taht is done all the time.
3.The word is endangering.It was blind luck that bullets going through several walls did not hit anyone innocent.
That is totally unacceptable.
1. Innocent.
He did not shoot anything out. His AR 15 had safety on.
Hans
3.The word is endangering.It was blind luck that bullets going through several walls did not hit anyone innocent.
That is totally unacceptable.
1. Innocent.
He did not shoot anything out. His AR 15 had safety on.
Hans
by Slamdunc on 10 June 2011 - 18:06
Hans,
Why don't you go back and read my posts and find the answers to your questions there. I'm not going to debate with you, there really is no point. I am also not going to be baited by you. With you being a "Libertarian" there is nothing I can say or do that will register with you on this subject. I have no problems with what I have said on this thread and stand behind it. You are an intelligent man go back and re read what I wrote in the beginning of this thread.
Keith,
Thanks for responding and answering those very obvious questions. I have neither the inclination or the patience to rehash the whole thread again.
Jim
Why don't you go back and read my posts and find the answers to your questions there. I'm not going to debate with you, there really is no point. I am also not going to be baited by you. With you being a "Libertarian" there is nothing I can say or do that will register with you on this subject. I have no problems with what I have said on this thread and stand behind it. You are an intelligent man go back and re read what I wrote in the beginning of this thread.
Keith,
Thanks for responding and answering those very obvious questions. I have neither the inclination or the patience to rehash the whole thread again.
Jim
by 4pack on 10 June 2011 - 19:06
"3 it is not a judgement call . If police or anybody shoots an innocent person it is always morally , ethically and legally wrong that is even if it is in self defence. This what happened there shows total lack of judgement, respect to innocent life, training, planning,......
IN USA you do not have right to shoot or evne endanger innocent person in order to protect yourlesf".
Hans
Really? Really?
IN USA you do not have right to shoot or evne endanger innocent person in order to protect yourlesf".
Hans
Really? Really?
by Keith Grossman on 10 June 2011 - 20:06
I found the search warrant and it looks like it is a drug case in which Jose's brother was the initial focus the investigation but it branches out from there to include pretty much everyone around them in some way or another. Read the warrant and decide for yourselves but I'm guessing that Jose wasn't the choirboy that some here are painting him to be: http://keithgrossman.com/jose.pdf
by Slamdunc on 10 June 2011 - 20:06
Keith,
Very interesting document, sure does shed some light on things.
Jim
Very interesting document, sure does shed some light on things.
Jim
by 4pack on 10 June 2011 - 21:06
Goes back to choose your friends wisely. You are asscoiated with who you hang with. Seems his family and extended family, inlaws and friends were a bunch of reputable characters, NOT!
by Myracle on 10 June 2011 - 21:06
The funny thing is, if this guy had gunned down an entire family of Iraqi women and children because they pointed an AK-47 at him when he breached the front door of their house, you wouldn't see a damned thing wrong with it, would you?
Funny, you lament the Thin Blue Line and accuse Cops of being conspiratorial and evil, and "oh they're protecting their own".
But you want Bradley Manning executed for treason, don't you, because he failed to "protect his own" and hide evidence of war crimes.
Such selective morality some people have.
You say that defending the SWAT Team Members in this instance insults the USMC?
BULLSHIT- this guy is an insult to the USMC.
He had a previous arrest for drugs and guns.
He knew damned well it was the Police Department in his front yard.
They blared sirens, they yelled "Police, we have a warrant" loud enough that you can hear it on video OVER a loud car radio.
He had every opportunity to change the outcome, but he made the decision to continue to stand in the hallway with a gun rather than throw it down.
Point a gun at a Cop, what's the Cop supposed to do?
Wait for you to murder his Partner, before he fires?
Funny, you lament the Thin Blue Line and accuse Cops of being conspiratorial and evil, and "oh they're protecting their own".
But you want Bradley Manning executed for treason, don't you, because he failed to "protect his own" and hide evidence of war crimes.
Such selective morality some people have.
You say that defending the SWAT Team Members in this instance insults the USMC?
BULLSHIT- this guy is an insult to the USMC.
He had a previous arrest for drugs and guns.
He knew damned well it was the Police Department in his front yard.
They blared sirens, they yelled "Police, we have a warrant" loud enough that you can hear it on video OVER a loud car radio.
He had every opportunity to change the outcome, but he made the decision to continue to stand in the hallway with a gun rather than throw it down.
Point a gun at a Cop, what's the Cop supposed to do?
Wait for you to murder his Partner, before he fires?
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