Prices - Page 2

live4 You ask for all the right info, however... Solid black dogs with that much bone are hard to find. On top of that a masculin female. I'm looking for the same thing. Havn't found it yet. On top of that you want a good head, perfect ears, hips/elbows and nerves. I can't even find a male for sale who lives up to all of this. Perhaps if this dog is out there, the owner is not willing to part with it. I know I wouldn't, unless something about the dog drove me away, like temperment issues. The dog you are looking for...female, may not be out there, or the owner of such a dog knows he has a rareity and isn't willing to part with it. Your search could be a long one. If your not willing to settle for less, be prepaired to search, search, search. Good dogs don't fall out of he sky in your lap. Also I hope you have a huge pile of cash to lay down for such dog.

live4-nice ad ,that what i mean bye do your home work,

4pack agreed. With the popularity of "Black Sables" the chances are very high there are females matching my request. I suppose I will have to purchase them as puppies in the long run to get what I want. I have a working theory regarding this specific color classification "Black Sable" vs "Dark Sable" in that all true "Black Sables" cary recessive black (awa). Black Sable bred to Solid Black always produce 50% Black Sables and 50% Solid Blacks. The Solid Black being (aa) and the Black Sables being (awa Sable with black recessive). With all the Black Sable to Black Sable and Black Sable to Solid Black breedings lately there is a very high likelyhood that there are many females out there matching my critera. If you look at the most "successful" breeders curently producing outstanding working dogs, the majority of those are using "Black Sables" as breeding females and stud dogs. What is less advertised is the fact that 90% of those animals (the advertised breeding pairs) come from Black Sable to Solid Black matings (the foundation animals). I know this has completely ran offtrack of this original post, sorry.

My experiences so far validate what you say about black sables, live4. Black bitch bred to sable, got one very black, black sable, and a lot of very dark sable puppies. Sable with black recessive, bred to black and tan with black recessive, got two very black, black sables, and two probable black sables.

Two points on this thread: Posting prices - I agree that sellers should post prices on the ads because it would save someone from wasting their time looking into a dog that exceeds their budget. I think it looks fishy when no prices are included - the seller could possibly be waiting for that sucker to come along so that they can really ream the guy. We had a guy call our SchH club who had just bought his first GSD ever for $35,000. SchH3 male, working lines, but nothing special about this dog. He was ignorant, he had deep pockets, and the sellers took him to the cleaners. Black sables and genetics: The term "black sable" is overused, just as the term "bi-colored". I've seen many photos of dogs that are called black sables that are just grey sables, and dark B&T's that people try to pass off as bi's. Dark pigment is desireable therefore people will push the limit so that they can classiby their dogs as such. To see a good pictoral representation of GSD coat colors, Linda Shaw's articles on-line include a section on coat color. She shows examples of all possible combinations. Breeding a black sable to a black will not guarantee 50/50 mix. This is only the statistical probability. In my dog's litter, the sire and dam were both black sable with black recessive. According to the probability we should have seen 25% blacks and 75% sables. Instead, only 3 out of 8 puppies were sable and the rest were black. Yvette

Yvette You are right, but like a test, it is only properly done over a larger scale. I have bred two Blk SBls twice. The first litter yielded 3 solid blks and 2 Blk sbls. The second litter only had 1 solid blk out of 9 puppies. If I were to repeat the breeding a third time, who knows what you would get. Nothing is "guaranteed"! If you run the numbers over a longer time, the number may end up being 25/75.

Yvette,I agree that many call dark sable dogs black sables. That's why I qualify the color I have seen as very black, black sable. Pups that look nearly black when born, but have a little sable color around the eyes, etc. One in the last litter I thought was solid black. I also think people over use the term bicolor. To me it is a dog who has tan on it's feet and very little anywhere else.

My black and tan female was breed to a gray sable and produced 6 black sables.

live4schutzhund: "Any submitals lacking any of the above information will be ignored. This information is readily available to any responsible, respectable breeder. If your not a breeder and dont have this information on an animal you purchased, dont offer the animal to me for consideration." "I know there are many many females out there matching my request. Either they dont read these boards, dont want to let that female go, or are deceptive. I think when a deceptive breeder reads an ad like mine, they dont bother responding knowing I'll call their bluff. So far still waiting." ---------- I wouldn't say there's MANY females that match your request. But anyway, you might consider the way you come across in writing as a reason for lack of replies, as if you have an "air" about you. Should the breeder respond in this manner?... "I have overly masculine solid black female from working lines. The handler requirements below represent exactly what I am looking for. Please review the requirements below then submit the requested information to myblackbitch4u@yadayada.com Requirements -not heavy-handed -at least one accomplished title in a recognized sport -clear in the head -good knees -no other small animals in your home Information to Submit -copy of membership card for place of training -price willing to pay -your location and contact information -list of studs you intend to breed her with Any submitals lacking any of the above information will be ignored. This information is readily available to any responsible, respectable handler. If your not a qualified handler and don't have this information on yourself, I won't offer the animal to you for consideration." ---- Don't take any of that personal, I just making light. You just seem the "hard to please" type, and would resort to slander if the slightest detail was askew in your expectations. Good luck in your search!

You are correct. I tend to be very blunt. I sell concrete for a living dealing with hard people every day that can sniff out a liar at the drop of a hat. I suppose I should tone it down a bit and act more like your average buyer, "ignorant and eager". I have already come to the conclusion that purchasing a couple puppies that I can train, enjoy and bond with is the best route for me. I guess the most frustrating thing is when I mask my bluntness and I see someone is trying to railraod me and they think they are getting away with a good hustle, the inevitable backlash when I finally do say somthing is much more than if I were to be honest from the get go.