HELP!!! NEED ADVISE 2 FEMALE DOGS WITH A LITTER OF PUPS - Page 2

After the pups are weaned, if the mother prefers not to spend time, by all means let the Border Collie take over their canine education...but until then, since the BC is clearly showing possesive behavior, allowing her to be with them while their mother is present will likely earn you nothing more than a trip to the vet with one or both bitches, because your mama dog isn't going to allow that young Collie to usurp her position.

In fact, I have to hand it to your GSD bitch, that she didn't nail your BC the first time the youngster growled at her while they were in with the pups...she showed remarkable restraint. Many bitches would not have been so tolerant, even without 3 week old puppies at their side.

I suggest you also keep a very close eye on the BC, as this sudden display of maternal instinct may well be due to her hormones whirling about as she prepares to come into her first heat--so free-running with your male dog isn't the best plan for her, either, until her heat cycle has come and gone. I'm sure you're not looking for mixed breed puppies out of an underage bitch [at least I hope that's the case].

Hi Hexe, no the male has been neutered so no more puppies. I was just curious with her behavior toward the pups when their are not even hers. ive never seen anything like it before. As for the mother she has warned the other dogs at time when they've got to close to the pups but the last week she has just lost all interest in feeding them hence why i thought that the collie may have observed and realized that the pups need looking after which if so i think is remarkable at such a young age. However, she is like a quarter of the size of the GSD Bitch and to have the nerve to stand in the pen and then growl at the mum for getting to close i found slightly odd. She as really got attached to the pups though, she was really weary of them at first and i never really allowed her to see them and then yesterday she just suddenly became relly attached. Ill observe and keep them separated.

9 puppies, 3 weeks old, mother looks :

"...tired and depressed", "...the nursing of the pups is taking it out on her. She is sore from the feeding and is always scratching at the door to get out of the room the pups are in."

"The pups are 3 weeks old we will be starting them in 3-5 days on their own food and water."

It´s time to start feeding the pups immediately, not in 3-5 days.

The dam needs support, and I´d measure her temperature, and check her mammary ridges to be sure she is healthy.
Don´t lock her in a room with pups where she can´t escape them - she needs to be able to decide by herself when it´s time for feeding, and when it´s time to rest.

Otherwise, like the others already said, keep the adult dogs separated for the sake of all of your dogs.

This is me keeping my mouth shut.

If mom is reluctant check her tits looking for redness heat lumps or hardness or pus from the nipple - all signs of mastitis. If so get her to a vet and get antibiotics but keep her with the pups and allow them to nurse- best thing for mastitis but it needs to be treated as well. Note no tetracycline - affects color of pups adult teeth.

Are you clipping the pups nails every couple of days with a human baby nail clipper? Needs to be done - they can rip mom apart with those sharp little nails.

Nursing bitches need a huge amount of water and food. Make sure she is hydrated - tiredness and depression can be symptoms of dehydration. Also if you can make sure her food is quality food and perhaps judiciously add some raw to her diet. Get some chicken livers - if nothing else give her the blood - very invigorating. With liver small doses at a time or you will get diarehha.

Good luck and please keep the bitches separated.

TIG thank you for your comment, ill take that onboard. As for the other previous neagtive comments, im asking about the collies behaviour not how i look after my dogs. Its people like you that start arguments with irrelevant remarks. The bitch as the whole bottom kitchen to herself, its a large area and she as ample space to not be near them. We help were we can when she doesnt want to feed with formulated milk, she gets regular walks, shes on top quality food and we will be weening the pups based on the vets recommendation in a few days not from somebody who thinks she knows how to be a dog.

VK, you are a smart guy...

Nice to meet you, Dexter.

I´ll try again:

Hello Dexter, welcome on this board!
You made a very interesting observation about the behavior of your 8 months old BC girl.

I don´t know why she behaves this way, maybe simply because of hormones kicking in, telling her to take care of the pups, showing possessive behavior, but maybe ( I don´t think so, but you asked about the possibility ) your BC does have the feeling that something is wrong with mother and/or litter, and she wants to "help out".

In case you are interested in any further discussions about nutrition, health, dog behavior, or anything else, I am sure a lot of people on this board are willing to give advice.

Hi Susie, thank you for your response. I dont mean to sound angry, its just i had a question about the collies behaviour towards the pups and then people make remarks about the way we are treating the dogs etc. We are not breeders, however we do know our dogs. The mother has always been the dominant dog and she has warned the dad to stay away from the pups. However she does allow the dogs to be near her pups now as she very rarely wants to be near them. She has shown no signs of aggression toward the collie and the DAD GSD and shes been like this for the last week. I can understand that shes tired, we are doing everything we can to help with her mothering however the best way is for her to do the job. She knows whats right. We have only allowed limited contact with the Male GSD and the pups when the mother has been in the garden and that was with a muzzle on and on a very tight lead as to prevent any sudden attacks etc. You do hear horror stories and thats the last thing we want. However the collie is really still a pup at 8 month old, shes not the biggest of collies and we have at times seen her cleaning the pups and laying amongst them. No aggression just attachment. She is the most laid back dog out of the three of them, she response to corrections, she is obedient, and to just see her taking on the role of a mum is really surpirising. Obviously its not something we are going to allow, but i just didnt understand why she would growl at the mum to prevent her from coming into her own den. The mother GSD didnt growl back she just allowed it and walked away. I have read that dogs submit to other dogs on many other reasons and i know the size of a dog doesnt matter. Either the mum wants another dog to the job or shes submitting to the collie. I find that hard to believe has the mother is really dominant. Puzzling but ill take what you have said onboard. Thank You

Hello. I'm not trying to start a fight/argument, but Dexter, people like Susie, Joanro, Jenni, Ibrahim(sp?), and others are all seasoned in breeding and dog behavior. I would take their advice.

I thought I knew my dog, too. I thought my dog was the sweetest in the world, and she never showed dog aggression. Ever. I had a friend's puppy stay with me for a while, and one day while I was feeding them both (separately, but in the same room), I figured it would be okay to leave them alone while I went to grab shoes to take them out. As soon as I left the room, I watched as my adult dog snapped at the puppy, probably because she grew up as a single dog and wasn't used to sharing attention. She didn't dare do it while I was around, so I guess I thought it would be okay for just a second. I was wrong.

I know you aren't leaving them unsupervised, but a small growl can escalate; and I know you want to wait a few days to start them on other food, but I would take what people are suggesting into consideration. Like I said, they've been doing it for a lot longer and have experienced more, so... That's my two cents.

Sorry if I'm rambling. I've been awake a long time.