Differences-PP or Sch - Page 2

I get from the responses that none of the previous responders have/had a PPD or really know much about them. Bits and pieces of some of the responses are correct- sport vs. real lfe - are trained on bite suits vs. sleeve - are on alert when out of the house Mis-statements- more like ring sports. That is still a sport. - some obedience. Very high levels of obedience. Dogs must be able to go with you in public and be under control. -remain relatively stable. Very stable, confident dogs. PPD condidates would be the same as Police dog candidates.

Dave, the dog I have described belonged to my family. I do not want to start anything, but I think he was better trained than most police dogs of today. We just had rules we had to follow, so he could do his job. A PP is a total package and a life style that you have to adjust for. We had him back in the 70's. I do not know if it is different now, the type of training, ease of living with the dog. The biggest difference is, if you came thru a door unannounced, he did not wait for a command, he was at your throat. He also had other trigger points, but He could be called off. You are correct he could be walked in a crowd and you would never know. However, as time went on my Mom began turning him into more of a pet. I can tell you that caused some issues.

1doggie2, you are describing a nerve bag of a dog. PPD's, Police K-9's...etc need to be stable and safe anywhere. Just because they are taught to bite with out equipment does not make them vicious killers. These dogs are also taught when it is appropriate to bite and when it is not.

neuen-polizei- I'd have to agree with you 100%. I have a PP dog and although SOME of the things 1doggie2 mentioned I may agree with; most are not true in a true for real PP dog but yet in what he/she described to be the case in a dog that is somewhat of a nerve bag. I work my dog in SCH but primarily for my benefit in having the control at all times, all costs, under all circumstances so there is no room for an oops! He KNOWS without a doubt SCH is "play play play". I have 4 little kids and visitor's that come to my home regularly; I don't "put the dog away" nor do I not trust him around people or I wouldn't own him. Yes, he's on "alert" 24/7, watches everything all the time, paces my house and looks out my windows vigorously to make his appearance known. When something seems out of pocket, ears go up and he becomes very confident but never just off the wall crazy over the littlest non threatening thing. My kids play, sometimes rough, his ears go up and he may go over to check things out but he's not gonna take my kids face off for having one of my kids wrestling around laughing. My husband and I raise our voices and the dog puts himself in our presence, sometimes in between us but unless there was a full blown physical altercation I can't see him reacting aggressively. He's very loving with my husband and I but really isn't interested in "strangers" lovin' on him-but you could walk over and pet him without it being a problem. He goes to the vet UNMUZZELED. In fact I don't have a reason or need to muzzel him. A dog that is totally clear in the head, totally confident and stable in nerves doesn't behave the way in which was described above. Hence you don't need to take such extreme precautions but merely common sense. People just aren't gonna walk in your house without knockin', visitor's aren't gonna act like jack asses in your home knowing you have this type of dog, and you yourself aren't gonna put you or the dog in a situation that he'd have to back someone in a corner. When someone like a repair man comes to my home my dog is put in a down stay position not far from the front door. I don't tell him the repair man is a "friend" cause he's not and I don't know if he's "o.k." or a mad rapist but the dog isn't gonna lunge and bite his face off because he walked in with a tool belt on and a tool box BUT he will without a doubt keep his eyes and ears on him the entire time he's in the house. Many people confuse a PP dog as a dog that will bite you; not so, he'll only bite you if he's a. told to or b. is placed in a position he has to in order to protect his family. Some SCH trained dogs will also do the same; not all but many will IF the genetics and training are both there. There's no real way to explain it to people unless they have actually been shown the differences.

I personally had a personal protection red female Dobermann that I trained and she would attack on command everytime. She also would "out" on command. She did not attack any particular part of the body, but would attack where she felt like biting, for whatever reason she had to go to a particular body location. It varied. She was started on a sleeve but then switched to a full body protective suit and changed where she bit on her own. It seemed that it was usually the closest part of the body upon her arrival to the "suspect". Many times it was the groin area, which was the level of her head. This same dog would play with my children and even once, one of my sons (I believe he was about two or three) stuck a pencil into her ear, and she jumped up, yelped and snapped the air near him, and walked away, just as I was yelling "out". I do not think I outed her and believe that she made up her own mind to not bite. She was as docile as any pet dog I have ever had, unless she was told to attack. One time, I had forgotten that I had given my estranged father the key to my front door and he lived 150 miles away, and he came to my home about two in the morning and did not want to wake us so he let himself in the front door. I heard her barking and running from beside my bed, but before I woke completely, she attacked him, jumping up through the screen on the top part of the storm door (he had opened the outside wood and glass door), and she almost got him in the face. I didn't know what was happening until I heard my father yell. He had quick reflexes and had shut the wooden door on her and she was caught on the aluminum piece that devides the bottom section from the top section. Her legs were trapped and I had to open the door my father was holding, to get her down. All four of her legs were off the ground. She had jumped through the top screen at him. She died at age 9 from cancer. She was diffinitly not aggressive towards anyone, unless she was told to do so, except for this instance. She had not been trained in this type of situation, but apparently praising her when ever she barked at strangers throughout her life, had reinforced this action from her. We lived in a rough neighborhood. I have seen and trained other personal protection dogs like this, and I have seen some that were unstable. Point being, there are both. It depends on the trainer and the dog. Both have to be good to get a family personal protection dog that is also a trusted pet. It is not only the trainer and it is not only the dog. Both have to "have it". They are not all untrustworthy, no more, no less, than husbands and wives:) As stated, sporting dogs are sporting dogs. You can have a champion retriever that "may" bite if you are attacked, the same way that you could have a GSD that "may" bite if you are attacked. Chances are better with the GSD, but there are no guarantees, even if the dog is Schutzund trained. With a personal protection trained dog, it is going to bite. It may bite and if it gets injured with a knife, gun or baseball bat or whatever, it may back up or run, but it will bite the first time. If it doesn't, it wasn't trained well.

1doggie2, you have just described what is commonly described by top W. German breeders as a "gangster dog". This is s dog best used for perimeter containment with 100% no trespass. Such a GSD is a faulty dog and is a total liability nightmare. It is either faulty because of abusive training practices or genetic or developmental faults. A GSD like this is typically not stable or sound, and a significant portion of these dogs have temporal or parietal lobe psychomotor epilepsy. In most cases a sound stable GSD, that is one with normal GSD temperament, will fight the longest and hardest to protect his owner/family when the threat is serious and real. In my experience many nervy or over aggressive GSDs come on hard and fast and then break off when the attacker continues to fight hard. There are exceptions and some gangster dogs will never stop until they have subdued or defeated the attacker. These gangster dogs that will do so are few and far between and in my view are just too great a liability to own.

My problem with these "gangster dogs", as Preston describes them, is that you can't trust that these dogs are going to bite the right person. Are they going to bite you, the intruder, or both? Personal protection dogs are suppose to bring the feeling of safety to the owners. A dog that has been trained to bark aggressively on command is enough for most people.

pp dogs are as most says i had a pp dog that any kid could do almost anything they wanted 2 do pull his tail rough play pull his ears but let any 1 older get out of hand it was on unless he was told no it was breed in him to know when to light up or trun it off 1doggie2 you need to know what you are talking about befor you speak

First I want to say that I do not own a trained PP dog,I have not trained one but I had an opportunity to be present during the training and I have seen some of them in "action". I know for sure that these dogs come in a "package" and that owning one requires some "adjustments" from owners side. Now, some people can live with that but some cannot. I do not need a PP dog but apparently I happen to own a dog who is very protective when my family is in question, especially my 6 years old son. He is a show line, IPO1, and was not trained to be a protection dog, he was born with protective instinct (as someone said "dogs are born with that" - and I strongly believe in that).There were not many ocassions where he had to act like a family protector, 3 or four times,only once he bit a guy (a drug addict who disregarded a warning and made a move to steel my wifes bag, other occasions it was enough for him to show teeth and growl to cure any agressive behavior. My poin is: Maybe it would be better, for average owner, to develop the protective insticts of their dogs, spot the instict in time, properly encourage those instincts, if the dog strongly feels that he belongs to the family you are well on the way. Just my two cents (or something...)

The dog 1doggie2 had may have been trained that way, look at the time frame of in the 70's. Many things have changed since then including how dogs are trained and what they are expected to do. A PP dog trained to that extent today would not be for a family.