Question on the 5 trunk bloodlines of the GSD genealogy - Page 2

Bebo is right about the charts. They are made annually ( the first chart from Mithuna shows all participants of the BSP in 2012 ).

The same charts, as Bebo already showed, are made every year after the BSZ, here we have two charts, all males and females that were shown in the working dog class of the Siegershow. Two charts only because there are way more dogs than on the BSP.

These charts only show the FATHERLINE, not the motherline, and no female ancestors. That said, they are nice for a quick search, but they are missing way too much ( 50% of the ancestors lost after ONE GENERATION, 75% lost after TWO GENERATIONS, and so on ......... !!! ).

Tenmon is right, the only "trunk" is Horand.

Thanks bebo I think I understand the charts better as far as the working dog chart goes it seems to be based on the number of dogs that qualify to be in the BSP and also with a combination of how high each dog scored in the BSP on dog names horizonaly to the extreme far right and far left in the chart does that sound correct ? I still don't understand why a similar chart cant be made just on females it would also be nice for a chart to be created focusing on American working dogs even though most American breeding stock originates out of German working stock.The chart could be made up by only dogs being born on American soil and perhaps be based on dogs that make it to the working national trials.

Only trunk is Horand doesn't that mean just for that chart,even Horand had a Sire and Dam it all depends on at what point in time a dog is traced back to.

Whats the very first year the BSP was created,the starting point.

yep.

it's not all that hard to make a chart like that, especially for a smaller participant pool, like nationals. use the results list, a few pedigree db's, and a flow chart tool, e.g., https://www.draw.io/. i'm pretty sure, you'll find the result somewhat wanting. at one point we started using R+ to overlay mother lines on the BSP chart but it's just too much darn work to as you'll need to split the branches semi-interactively. the one-offs are just too many. you could also use SNA graphing techniques but it still leads to pretty messy representaton that ends up too darn hard to read.

moreover, once you get into it a bit, you'll "see" the mother lines of significance without having to resort to a formal approach, especially since most strong mother lines are expressed by strong sons. not always but often. if you take, say, connie vom körnerplatz, you'll "see" with very little effort where and how the impact occurs. ditto for, say, bona vom schmiedegarten or gitta vom ketscherwald, interestingly enough, you'll also see a pretty significant correlation to specific kennels and their males.

statistically speaking, you're much better off charting males with the implied understanding that they all had mothers than vice versa. anyway, if you get some flow charting going, put it up.

" Whats the very first year the BSP was created,the starting point."
Bundi, that´s not important in this case, because the chart is not about former BSP participants, but about the dogs that were able to produce TODAYS BSP participants.
A lot of dogs participated over the decades without being good producers - the actual charts do only and exclusively show the ancestors that were able to produce good dogs, no matter if the ancestors have been prominent or not.

Suzie I,m sure the BSP had a year it first started it is very important you were relating it to only one trunk so a starting point is very relavent

Decision Tree Modeling can generate a very nice graphic with sires and dams if all the peds were stored in a single database. T

Bundi, it´s about good producers, not about dogs who participated in former decades, and for doing so you need alive dogs, looking at their pedigree.
They started the BSP like we know it today ( I guess ) in 1949 - but even these dogs had ancestors, and we are able to trace them back to Horand, when the breed book was startet - not sooner, not later.
In case the winner from 1960 (only an example ) isn´t mentioned in this chart somewhere, this dog didn´t produce offspring that was able to produce good offspring again and again - a dead end.

Bebo I suspect your correct that a Female line would prob be too hard to follow, perhaps it would be much more easy here in the states because the list would be so much smaller than the SV chart wether it be made from males or females. I  would first need to find last years national qualifiers and if none or few are found from a American born then I would then have to include multi years if the chart was to small of gene pool to have much meaning.