Wanted: Partner for DDR website - Page 2

Sorry to say it will not work people will use the free website. And your dream will go up in smoke. Remember the old saying " If you can't beat them join them"

Maybe it would be a good idea to make a "Lite" version of the software, that is publicly free (name, reg.#, b-day, titles), but more detailed layer that can be paid for (with pictures, breed surveys, koer ratings). Anyway, it would be nice to have guaranteed ACCURATE information, depending on the price. Not just "anybody" altering the data with incorrect information, photos, ancestry, etc. Also, alot of folks presume into believing a line may be of "100%" DDR ancestry, that is in fact NOT.

Sorry to say it will not work people will use the free website. And your dream will go up in smoke. Remember the old saying " If you can't beat them join them"

Let me guess.. You probably got Herr Werner Dalm to help you, right? Well, best of luck to you. I'm just glad I got my own information and documentation, so that no one can say that I "stole" it from them. I hope your hard work and investment pays off. I considered to do this, also, but I just couldn't see where it would pay to do it. Nevertheless, the information should be made available, for the sake of the dogs and whatever future they may have remaining. I do not plan to offer a database CD. If it's well done, I would think that serious people would want both. The problem I see at this late stage of the game is that most of the remaining DDR dogs have the same pedigree, anyway! I am being a bit facetious, but not by much. Everything now goes to Sven Gräfental, Alf Körnersee, and some of the Poppitz dogs, maybe a few more miscellaneous lines, here and there, generally on the bottom of the pedigree. I just cannot envision putting all of this into databases. The cost to me in terms of personal time would be too great. But I am willing to post Adobe Acrobat copies of the originals, and no one can question that for accuracy. I will keep the original books, even if I have to disassemble them to get good copies. I think it's important that the accuracy can be established in that manner. Having two or three references is a good thing.. The CD or database would be handy and convenient, but if you ever want to really check the original documents or research what a dog or bitch was producing, these books are a very good resource. Well, I'm going to be giving that away soon. I hope it can help the dogs and breeders. Yvonne, I may want to buy your CD eventually. I think it could be very valuable to have as a convenient reference. I just don't want you to think I am getting my information from you, OK? And you are right that there are too many inaccuracies on this database.. But that is not to fault the database. It's an open forum.. You have to consider the GIGO factor (garbage in, garbage out).

"for the sake of the dogs and whatever future they may have remaining" Those were pretty much my thoughts as well. Ten or fifteen years ago, the information could have made a difference. I wouldn't bet on it now.

Agreed, darylehret.. All bets are off. But a lot can still be done. A few people even can do a lot if they have the will and desire to do it. Considering that an entire breed (ours) was built originally upon a small number of dogs that fitted the desired profile, and that pivotal changes have been made since then on a few dogs, it is not inconcievable that these DDR dogs could be kept a distinct line well into the future. Don't forget that after WW2, the breed had to be rebuilt after sustaining serious losses. Most hopeful is the fact that quite a few people did freeze semen on their dogs. So, the possibilities are still there. Within the genetics of these few dogs is contained the prototypes for the future dogs, who would be a reflection of many of the dogs we knew in the past. They are not entirely gone. It was not for lack of information that we let these dogs slip through our fingers. It was for lack of a consistent interest and motivation. There was no commitment to keep them. They were just a commodity to be exploited, while it lasted. And as usual, the green-eyed monster, jealousy, and competition between importers and breeders was a part of that erosion. I think that part of the problem is that Americans tend to go through phases, and then move on to something else. We are fad-driven. We did import most of the best of these DDR dogs, so the onus is on us. But this is what we do with EVERYTHING we import! We get all excited about whatever it is, play with it awhile, and when the novelty wears off and the money runs out of it, we move on to the next fad. That's what happened here. When there were a lot of great DDR dogs to be had for little money, we bought them, bred them and sold pups to pet buyers.. but the breeders here don't keep anything or develop a line. They just keep importing. Imported dogs then go through this attrition process and the cycle starts over, again. The SV highline breeders didn't want these dogs.. "too primitive", I suppose, by their standards. So, their judges and wardens put them down and only a few core bloodlines survived these evaluations consistently. They cannot be compared to SV show dogs, you know.. Other DDR breeders took their best bitches to studs from high show lines in an attempt to upgrade, and that fell flat, as well. Well, I think that it has been very difficult for the East German breeders to do anything with these dogs under the SV system. Most of them either got out of dogs or moved on to bloodlines that they could show under the current SV administration.

I was just reading Yvonne's post, again. Talk about people stealing your work.. I know that one, and painfully so. Most of the people out there are just users, out to get whatever they can get, and don't want to give anything back. I could name names, but I will refrain... Maybe, because the list would be too long! LOL.. I have to let bygones be bygones. I'd never trust these people, again, and they would get no favors from me. There are a lot of parasitic people and vultures out there. I know this from personal experience. Yvonne.. I do have a large number of the "Der Hund" magazines, as well. A HUGE amount of these, in fact! The East Germans had extraordinarily beautiful dogs of many breeds.. not just the German Shepherd Dog. I often wonder what happened to these other breeds. It is said that their Giant Schnauzers (Riesenschnauzer) were the best to be found, anywhere. They also had Collies (rough coated) and Airedale Terriers which could do excellent manwork. The East Germans were big dog-lovers and had some excellent stock in all the major breeds.

"Those were pretty much my thoughts as well darylehret" I do remember reading your posts on several forums. You do believe that the ddr blood should be mixed with czec-slovak and west blood to have a better dog. People here may think you are in support of the keeping the ddr dog in as pure a state as possible.

I'm not adverse to preserving the DDR lines, but it won't be my battle. With the limited genepool and my preference to breed for working ability, it would be too difficult to breed strictly DDR. But the bloodlines have a bit to offer still. I'm one of those breeders that wants to develop my own line, and not just import.

Yes, I think we could have had the best of both worlds, combining the DDR lines into SV working and show lines. Of course the show people would see no point in it. They have gone pretty much down the same path that US breeders went back in the 70's with GV Ch Lance of Fran-Jo, i.e. "All lines to Lance!". The US breeders up until then had made use of selected imports such as Ch Sam vom Schaafgarten. After Lance, they felt that they had found the ideal bloodline and needed only to keep close to that. So it went in Germany with the Canto / Quanto, Lido / Liane combinations. That one bloodline now dominates the breed in Germany, all the others save a few working lines having fallen to the wayside. Thank God for the working dog breeders, that they preserved something in the way of an alternative! Well, Fidelco, the famous seeing eye foundation in Connecticut, used selected DDR dogs such as Bodo vom Grafental very enthusiastically. But they felt that no more than 1/4 DDR blood was ideal for their program. Yes, hybrids are very good.. But who is working to preserve the DDR lines as a pure and identifiable resource? Not many! I know some are, and I hope they continue. I especially applaud those people such as John LaTorre who have gone to great trouble and expense to seek out a more diverse gene pool. And he is committed to keeping these dogs as a pure resource. That is important, in my opinion. My hat is off to anyone who is tough and committed enough to try to create their own unique breeding program and bloodline. Resource-wise, this is very difficult and likely the work of a lifetime. Frozen semen is a tool that we should be making use of, especially in stand-alone programs, as it will allow us more options at a reduced cost of resources (time, money, labor, space, opportunities). Any registry policies which limit the use of this tool is ill-considered, in my opinion.