Gray Sable ? - Page 2

Looks like a sable - they tend to change a lot.
There is not always much black or red in sables, although it´s trendy.
A curious question: We ( the Germans) call all sables "gray/grey" ( grau), I had to learn the word "sable" - what´s the difference between gray/grey and sable in English?

Susie, I believe that in English "gray" has the tonal quality of lightened black, whereas "sable" has the tonal quality of brown.  A specific member of the weasel family is called "a sable".

I tell people who never heard of a sable GSD  that the coat color is like that of a raccoon  "Waschbar" (don't know how to type an umlaut).

Susie, sable is different in other breeds, such as collie. Sable in the gsd is agouti ...the guard hair is barred, as in the tip is always black, and then brown or tan or very light buff. The undercoat is always different color than the tip of the guard hair.

Okay, so "sable" is kind of a "warm" color whereas "grey" is kind of a cold (kind of black/white) color?

As i said before, we don´t distinguish between sable and grey, it´s simply called "grey", black, tan, light colored underneith, doesn´t matter.

Don't know when or why exactly the English started to call the grey / grau dogs  "sable";

I certainly remember it being in use by 1960.

 

Just to confuse you all a bit more, the weasel mentioned by Gunther is called an Ermine

in winter when it is white.

Thinking about Gunther's definition,  I should add that British dogs (and the

'West' German imports they have descended from),  were  generally shades

of grey / agouti that were fairly pale in comparison to the very dark sables we

see much of today.  [Esp. coming out of the East, or from W/Ls. ]  Some of them

had a reddish tint, especially to the legs;  some were/are reasonably dark grey, but

a few are/were really pale and silvery with very light creamy undercoats.  Not

necessarily a sign of pigment faults, their noses and nails etc were black.

Even these paler dogs when mated to Black&Golds tended, as sables do

today, to improve on colour in their offspring, with depth of black in B&G

pups being more solid and less prone to 'breaking'  ("bitch stripes" and so

on).  However I did know one sable bitch out of a normally grey mother and a B&G

sire who for some reaon was herself  extremely pale coloured.  She did lack some

depth of pigment, had some light toenails;  but still dark eyed and black nose.  She

just looked very diluted - can you imagine one of those light brown Teddy Bears but

with darker hair tips ?   Her undercoat was almost white, it was such a light 'grey'.

 

Hundmutter, do you mean to say that there are people who actually DO breed for and market "champagne" GSDs?  I was totally kidding...never ran across anyone claiming to have a 'champagne' because I had no idea they existed.  Fie on those people, and a pox on their house, then!

 

Hexe, there are people who breed for and market White GSDs  (and I don't

just mean those who are into White Swiss Shepherds for Showing and think

they now have a totally separate breed).  Just as there are people who

specialise in Blues or Livers ("Chocolate"), or just work on the basis of making

and selling as many 'unusual' coloured puppies as they can, from Black onwards. 

Usually LongCoats (again, the longer the better !) - and they mostly don't take a

lot of genetic health issues into account.  See previous threds on Epilepsy etc.

 

Here in the UK, many white dogs are known as "Champaigne" coloured, because

most white dogs aren't truly white.  Whether the product of deliberate breeding

or just the odd couple turning up unexpectedly in a litter somewhere, white GSDs

so often have a coat that has a pale brown or gingerish partial overlay, the tips of

the hair, mostly on the back and tail, being darker in places than the coat on legs and belly.

Champaigne may have started as a joky polite euphemism for "dirty white with paling

nose and light claws" .  Its been in use since before I was born.

Looks like a wolf pup! 

Well it,s the D litter so I,ll name him DerWolfen and use wolf as his call name. One of the girls is showning alot of gray also.