Working line? what does that mean? - Page 2

Right Dawg the dog cant read a pedigree...and nt all dogs in anyones litters are all super...take that back some of the top kennels do have a whole litter I guess.....I dont think anyone knows for sure how many born to the litter or do they have to disclose that to win the kennel with the most progheny's that titled?

IMHO "working line" is different from "working dog". If you have a lab whose parents and grandparents were show dogs that sniffs out drugs, then he is a "working dog", but he is still "show lines". The difference being working lines are chosen primarily for their aptitude in work...and the way I see it (or the way it should be), chosen for resilience, character, hardness, stability...basically, the kind of temperament that once you experience it, would have you looking down on any other kind of dog. It doesn't mean that just because a dog comes down from working lines means that it can work...but it's a start. I think the lines between 'work' and 'play' and so on for dogs is blurry. I have a hard time viewing a crappy showline dog who just barely manages to pass a Schutzhund I as 'working'. I also can't bear to call my nervy female barking at people 'working' (after all, most dogs bark). I suppose for me it all boils down to the individual dog. Does the dog *see* what he is doing as "work"? In other words, does he take it seriously enough that if need be, you could honestly depend on him? Does his 'job' take precedence over everything else--in other words, no "I'm not going to ask him to run down that road because his nails might break"? Then I might say that that is a working dog.

the Bundes Siegerprüfung- these dogs are from workinglines the Siegerschau --these dogs are from Hochzuchtlinien

To me workinglines connote the dogs that can excel at jobs that are consistent with the strength of the breed per the standard. Workinglines also means that the breeding of the lines or dogs will breed true to producing these same traits whether they be herding, police, military, SAR, seeing eye,and family pet. Yes family pet too, but the caveat to me is that the dog as family pet should as an adult still be courageous, noble, intelligent, and protective as the breed was intended. If a shepherd has these quqlities and produces these qualities consistently when bred to me it is a workingline.JMO

The reference working line vs show lines is referring to the Breeding lines. Workingdawg is correct in his statement about performance. Of course nothing is 100% absolute. What you do with the dog in terms of training/showing etc does not matter and does not change the genetics of the dog.

"Yes family pet too, but the caveat to me is that the dog as family pet should as an adult still be courageous, noble, intelligent, and protective as the breed was intended." Problem is, most people get violently defensive when you even so much as hint that their precious pet can't be all these things...

A working dog is a dog with a job. Regardless of breed (or no breed) or lineage. A working line dog has a pedigree that relates to performance dogs in its background rather than show dogs. The focus of breeding is on work performance, not ring performance. The breeding specializes the dog for peak work performance. When top performance dogs lack certain other aspects of the breed, most working line breeders are willing to compromise on that to keep improving the performance aspect of their breeding program. With the GSD in Germany the working line breeders can only compromise as far as the G rating as a minimum. A show line dog has a pedigree that relates to show dogs in its background. The focus of breeding is on ring performance. A show line GSD with a SchH3, is a show line dog with a title. Few breeds require working titles for their dogs, especially their show dogs. The show line GSD can do the work, but is not specifically bred and trained for just that. Show line breeders may be willing to compromise on work performance to keep improving on the show performance aspect of their breeding program. With the GSD show line breeders in Germany can only compromise on performance as far as the SchH1 as a minimum. Many other breeds have that division. Show and Racing Greyhound or Whippet, Show and Working Line (Field Trial) Retrievers, etc. Most herding and hunting dog breeds have show and working lines. Labradors for example have very distinctly different looks and temperaments depending if they are bred for the show ring or for Field Trials. A working line lab is nothing like the average yellow mellow fellow you see in pet homes. They are often smaller, less bone, not as square, far more agile, spry and spunky, will put most GSD to shame in terms of drive and determination, and they can be pretty formidable home protectors too. *** Workingdawg, if you bred show line dogs and then selected breeding stock for performance only, even over several generations, it would still be a show line dog, just one that excelled at the performance level. Chances are that you would compromise some of the ring performance. A show line dog that can only go SG or G is still a show line dog. If you would take some working line dogs, selected them on their structure and continued breeding them for structure and ring performance, after several generations they would still be working line dogs. It relates to the line. Many GSDs are good specimen in both areas but will never get to shine in the area it was not specialized in by breeding, because the owner has no interest or talent in it.

If I take showline pups, raise them with working "ethics and training", and through the years, breed only what is considered the best at these working line considerations, how long before the "transition" to what would be described as workingline"? Subsequently, if I did the reverse and took working lines, only bred the ones with the best conformations, but kept instilling the working ethic and training in them, would I end up with the present day showlines? I believe there are breeders doing both of these now. If what I have read from others in previous threads, it should take approximately 6 generations to transition from one side of the "rainbow" (thanks sueincc) to the other, and the resulting pups would be classified as "other than" what we started out with. ie: Started with show and now have working or vice-versa. Anyone disagree with this theory. Anyone know someone who is doing this? Is almost everyone striving for the correct conformation working dog or are "we" going in two separate directions and growing further apart with each passing generation? I'm just asking :)

I was typing the above while D.H. was typing his above, and had not read his posting when I submitted my above. He touched on my questions without knowing I was "going there". Common sense tells me to disagree with D.H., however, I do not have the knowledge he does, so I will not. It took approximately 100 years to get these two "distinctive" (I hesitate to us that term) lines, but how long was there only one line, thereby giving us an estimate for how long it takes to go from "one to the other" in my little experiment outlined above? Referring to the "Great Division" mentioned on the other thread.

A friend of mine breeds "working-line' GSDs, but recently bred one of her bitches to a 'showline' male, "because he's a good hard dog that can do anything", but she calls these puppies 'showline', and priced them lower, and my other breeder friend, who breeds 'showlines', bought one of these puppies, calls her a 'workingline' pup, and a 'holy terror'!!LOL My 'showline' girl is hard & sharp, and my 'workingline' boy is a laidback little son-of-a-gun. I love them both, and plan on titling them both, but I'm starting to think that my boy will be the 'therapy-dog'!!jo