Interesting Results... Rearing of pups comparison - Page 2

Have you guys ever read the guide dog studies? About pups that are raised with mom and since she inhibits them so much, they are unable to make it later as guide dogs. I would think this would be true in other working events as well but in my opinion, people take it to extremes by separating pups entirely from other dogs. I raise my dogs interacting with other dogs, but everyone gets individual time with me usually before they get playtime with other dogs. Never had a problem with the dogs wanting to run off to play with other dogs when they are on the field. I mean, after all, I have the ball, and the tug, and the food, and the other dogs don't. I take you running and swimming and for car rides and the other dogs don't. Bond with your dogs and you don't have to use isolation to be the best in your dog's eyes! In my opinion, seeing so many dog aggressive dogs, is directly correlated to the dogs not getting enough socialization when young enough not to hurt each other. So Echo, I would pick the good role model for the pups, but separate them out and let them interact with him and you individually.

ladywolf, Not always however we have only let one puppy leave us before the 9 week mark. Only under very special circumstances was this allowed. Some states have laws about early age puppy sales ours does not, However we feel it's very important they have 2 vaccinations before they leave and the xtra time spent with us and they're siblings and they're "rolemodel" has been so succesful that we have no plans to change it at this time. Comments we hear about our pups when they go to they're new homes are like.... he/she is so well adjusted. it only took a day to potty train. (which we give them a great start by our daily routine with them here) our pup has never had an accident. This is the smartest puppy. he/she plays so well with other dogs. he/she loves our cat. This is the most confident puppy. love his/her antics. blah blah blah, I mean geez how can I argue with such good reports coming back to us on a consistent basis. As far as SchH goes we have some upcoming dandy's our first BH's for pups we bred/raised will be coming in soon. So does not seem to have hurt them that way eighther, But who knows maybe they would have better than they are if we had segregated. I'm really liking all the input on this... Keep it up if you wish, Lots to learn right here I think. I know I will continue to watch the comments on this as I am finding all the diversity, and different feelings and outcomes quite fascinating.

If my dogs are all together, as they are each day, and I pick up a ball or a kong, I suddenly have every single one of them wanting to be with me to train. It is NOT true that dogs socialized with other dogs and allowed to play with them only want to be with other dogs IF YOU know how to make the dog interested in engaging with you. Teaching a dog to be engaged with you means doing that one dog at a time, but they still are very social animals and will appreciate and enjoy playing and being together. You can have it both ways and I believe that dogs separated early do NOT get the chance to learn about others. This would be no different than not allowing a human or any other animal to interact with its' own species. A lot of the studies are bunk. I trained today and I had an entire kennel of dogs barking their heads off hoping they would get to come out and train with me. Earlier this day and later, they were all out together. You just have to know how to do it.

hodie, Exactly same here !! Well put.

My pups get time with me, with each other, alone, and with the adults. They are currently 5 mo old. However, I'm concerned because I have one male that seems to be extremely aggressive with his littermates. Interaction with the adults has always been supervised and we've never had a problem. He shows the typical submissive behavior with the adults. He is NEVER aggressive with humans! But he will pick a fight with any of his littermates. I've started to seperate him more and more from them, because I don't want the other pups to become dog aggressive either. I've started taking him out on a leash wit his littermates to try to correct the behavior. My question is... should I be seperating him completely? The last thing I want is the other pups becoming dog aggressive.

I have an interesting observation, with 2 mums (mother and her daughter) raising 2 litters together. Daughter (now mother) gave birth to 7 puppies in July last year. Mum (now grandmother) gave birth to 2 male puppies 2 days later. I kept 2 puppies, one female from the daughter and a male from the mum. All other puppies left me when they are around 3 to 4 months-old. Other than 3 puppies who now live several thousand miles away, I still get to see 4 puppies regularly, in addition to the 2 puppies that I kept. First, the personalities of the mums. Both mums are friendly towards human, but daughter is aggressive towards other dogs, mum is a great "human" dog but indifferent to other dogs. The puppies were mixed and raised together, mum sometimes nursing daughter's puppies and vice versa. The 2 male puppies from mum (one that I kept and another with new owner) display personalities just like their mum. Really attached to human and naturally friendly towards neighbours' dogs. Of the 4 puppies (1 male and 3 females) from the daughter that I see regularly, they are more cunning, aloof and display aggressive behaviour towards neighbour's dogs. I think I can safely conclude, in my case, the puppies' inherent personality plays a great deal, even though they are brought up together, in the same environment, and all puppies have "2" mums, I don't think they recognise their natural mother, they were nursed by both "mums" when they are as young as 3 days-old. The 2 male puppies from mum have lovely personalities that I wish all my pups possess, I wonder if it helps in my next litter I should let the mum (i.e. grandmother) "teach" all my puppies (mum and daughters) social grace during their childhood.

ladywolf, Is he being kept? Is the litter going to stay with you or be sold? The issue normally is whether you have control over the dogs and they realise that certain behavior is not permitted. This is not to say that every once in a while you might not have a squabble over something, such as a toy. In general, I make sure there are plenty of toys and I do not interfere unless I see body posture that suggests it is getting out of hand. Even then, if I were not to interfere, believe me, most of the time they will settle it and it will be done with without a lot to do about it. It is very difficult for anyone to know what you mean by aggressive. Most people I see who bring dogs who are aggressive to the other dog in the household simply do not understand their is a range of play behavior and sometimes it can get rough. REal aggression is rare because dogs are social animals. Just like their ancestors, and many other species of mammals, it is counterproductive to be really aggressive to the group. And yes, sometimes it really is aggression as one dog is trying to set up his/her status in the group. This is completely natural and is not to be discouraged necessarily. I would not leash him, but would be right there all the time when they are together. Make sure you have sufficient room for them. Overcrowding is a large part of the problem many times. Let them tussle. If and when it is really getting to be an issue, go to the male who is the problem and put a stop to it by grabbing him by the scruff and letting him know that you do not want that behavior. I suppose an important question is what are you going to do with him? The fights I worry about and try never to allow to get started are when I have a female who is in heat. I make sure they are not near or with the males and at times, I keep the males separated from all the females who are not in heat as well. And I keep, of course, a very close eye on females who are in heat. I have one who, if given the chance, would start something. She is not allowed to do it. But one has to have had a lot of experience to be able to do this. Only you know your level of experience and comfort. If you feel uncomfortable with what is going on, it might be best to segregate him, but better yet, get someone else who has more experience to help you. What you do not want to foster is a dog who is other dog aggressive.

Laris, unless I missed it, you did not say if the sires of the pups were the same.

Laris, Very Interesting scenerio !!! I think you might be seeing, what I am seeing as well. I do beleive the adult influence has a great deal to do with the end result. Of course genetics must play a role as well. And I'm certain that the interaction with humans also plays a role. I know a nervous hand can make any dog/pup nervy and respond with aloofness and even agression if only out of discomfort being fed from the human counterpart. I know the pups that are with "uncle Echo" are confident, one is very drivey, one is very mellow, they play with him chase him, sleep on him, they love people ALL people as does he, and they love the other dogs, they are not affraid to approach them but approach them very submisively, wagging them little tails. I am really liking the results from the influence of "uncle Echo" All the way around !!

Laris-- I find your observations quite interesting. They seem to push the balance of evaluating genes vs nurture more to the genetic side concerning temperament. Another outcome of this observation--Since "mum" also raised "daughter", not negatively affecting nurture as proved by 2 male pups, then I would say the stud that sired "daughter" might have a questionable temperament. I really enjoyed your post and the questions it has raised for me.