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by dcfryxell on 05 March 2014 - 06:03
Hi everyone, many thanks for the responses. I was hoping there would be trait data associated with the pedigrees on this site so I could scrub it (extract it) using a coded automated process to understand the rate of trait change across generations. While it is true that traits are affected by both genes (the inherited component) and the individual's environment (e.g. climate, exercise, training, food portions), with large amounts of data spanning several generations it would be possible to get an idea of the rate of trait changes through time regardless of differences in the environment imposed by individuals' owners. With the apparent lack of easily accessible trait data I will be unable to pursue this project further. I still think if this data ever does exist it would be interesting to mess around with. However, at this point I cannot invest the time to manually digitize data from breeders' personal notes, etc., so this project will have to wait. I really do appreciate the warm responses from this community. Best wishes to all of you!
Dave
Dave
by Hundmutter on 05 March 2014 - 08:03
Just out of curiosity, Dave, in conceiving this research project, have you ever
come across a formal register of pedigrees, anywhere, of any breed (even a
rare one in low numbers), and either on or off the Internet, that consistently
records the sort of details of which you speak ? Whether easily extractable or
not ?. Does such a thing even exist ? I know some dog fanciers are 'anoraks'
in recording every tiny thing about their own stock; but I have never noticed that
sort of devoted obsession with nitty-gritty detail in most of the people involved
in the 'dog world' - sadly, perhaps, as it could provide invaluable information for
genetically-aware breeding, as well as research such as you want to do.
Knowing the GSD community, I'd have thought - particularly with recording issues
like the 'amount' of 'drive' (prey, defense, etc) in a line of dogs, and, for the Show
people, conformation traits - it would be most likely that if any breed was 'into' doing
this, it would be ours ! [Actually what I'd MOST like to see is a marrying of pedigrees
with HEALTH traits, like those carried on the various registers collating info on DM, HD,
epilepsy, etc.] Maybe I am wrong, and underestimating the depth of commitment in
other breeds ... I would be fascinated to hear of any reference you can provide to any
pedigree register that does do it. Thank you.
come across a formal register of pedigrees, anywhere, of any breed (even a
rare one in low numbers), and either on or off the Internet, that consistently
records the sort of details of which you speak ? Whether easily extractable or
not ?. Does such a thing even exist ? I know some dog fanciers are 'anoraks'
in recording every tiny thing about their own stock; but I have never noticed that
sort of devoted obsession with nitty-gritty detail in most of the people involved
in the 'dog world' - sadly, perhaps, as it could provide invaluable information for
genetically-aware breeding, as well as research such as you want to do.
Knowing the GSD community, I'd have thought - particularly with recording issues
like the 'amount' of 'drive' (prey, defense, etc) in a line of dogs, and, for the Show
people, conformation traits - it would be most likely that if any breed was 'into' doing
this, it would be ours ! [Actually what I'd MOST like to see is a marrying of pedigrees
with HEALTH traits, like those carried on the various registers collating info on DM, HD,
epilepsy, etc.] Maybe I am wrong, and underestimating the depth of commitment in
other breeds ... I would be fascinated to hear of any reference you can provide to any
pedigree register that does do it. Thank you.
by dcfryxell on 06 March 2014 - 02:03
Hundmutter - I'm unaware of any breeder's pedigrees that do what I was looking for, but I wouldn't know if there were. I know nothing about dog breeding, horse breeding, fish breeding, etc etc. I was simply here to see if this data existed in an online format that was already digitized. I came here because it seemed a good bet. Now, in terms of biological research there are plenty of study systems that track traits of individuals through time and across generations. Pedigree reconstruction of wild populations using the socalled "parentage analysis" allows researchers to infer pedigrees http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-294X.2012.05608.x/abstract;jsessionid=103C45DEB0564F579084D2FBF882A63A.f02t01?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false. Selection experiments examine the capacity for organisms to evolve through short periods of time http://www.sciencemag.org/content/297/5578/94.short. Then there are case studies which have a partly scientific motivation like the fox domestication project http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2010/09/06/mans-new-best-friend-a-forgotten-russian-experiment-in-fox-domestication/
Best,
Dave
Best,
Dave
by Hundmutter on 06 March 2014 - 08:03
T Y, Dave.
Haven't had time to find those yet, but my initial reactions are:
Dunno why the last reference led Scientific American to title the site
a "forgotten" experiment; PDB members (among others) seem very
aware of the Russian fox project. ( It gets mentioned fairly regularly on
here. )
Surely the others you list, and any similar familial research on wild
animals - the great apes, maybe ? - would be intrinsically flawed by
the difficulties in remaining sure of ancestral lines in a non-captive
population ?
Pardon my being downright nosy, but if you have no connection or
experience with breeding programs for anything, what made you
choose this subject ? I'm fascinated; I would SO much have liked
you to have found this info. in any form, digitized or other !
Regards, Linda.
Haven't had time to find those yet, but my initial reactions are:
Dunno why the last reference led Scientific American to title the site
a "forgotten" experiment; PDB members (among others) seem very
aware of the Russian fox project. ( It gets mentioned fairly regularly on
here. )
Surely the others you list, and any similar familial research on wild
animals - the great apes, maybe ? - would be intrinsically flawed by
the difficulties in remaining sure of ancestral lines in a non-captive
population ?
Pardon my being downright nosy, but if you have no connection or
experience with breeding programs for anything, what made you
choose this subject ? I'm fascinated; I would SO much have liked
you to have found this info. in any form, digitized or other !
Regards, Linda.
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