Hip X-rays- then and now-9 yr old male update - Page 2

No, Nan, he's still intact. Living in the lap of luxury now, but still has all his parts. Do you remember my posts a while back about the dog nicknamed "The Mink Dog"? These are his xrays. 

ACL happened after jumping off a small building after an animal, IIRC. He was young then...maybe 3?? Memory is fading. He's done so many crazy things it's a wonder he's alive. They sort of blend together. Surgery would've had him off work too long, so it wasn't fixed, as it was just a partial tear. Remodeling also could have occurred as an after-effect of muscle atrophy from limping. Who knows? 

Hopefully, people will see that babying a dog with shallow sockets or iffy hips is NOT the way to go and that constant exercise does not ruin hips. Now, I would not recommend that all dogs do the crazy things his life consisted of, but nonetheless, a window into the body of a really super athlete can teach us a few things, imo. 

Funny you tell that story, Nan. His sister didn't pass the first time, then later passed. I wonder what his hips looked like at 2-3. I *thought* he was about 18 mos. when the first set was taken, but going through my records, I think he was closer to 13mos., since it was summer, and he was born in May. That much I remember. So, I wonder if this line takes a bit longer to develop. Just food for thought on the bigger picture. If HD was JUST genetic, and as simple to weed out as not breeding affected dogs, we'd have it solved by now!

I mentioned this before, at one time OFA suggested that dogs not be xrayed for HD if they were older than 8 or 9, I've forgotten which. Their reasoning was it was difficult to tell if any remodeling was due to HD or the normal aging process. I don't think they suggest that anymore. Most people don't xray older dogs unless they have a problem, so this is probably something that hasn't been well researched and documented. I think I'll email OFA and ask them about their stats on older dogs. I know they offer a reduced free re-evaluation for older dogs that are already certified. They may have stats compiled on those results. The true test of course is the dog's production record.

Yeah, do that and post back if you get an answer. 

Limited resources for this info is part of why I decided to do it. I was thinking of redoing Capri's soon, but she's not even 7 yet. I did Caleb's again at 7 also. 

Thanks for clarifying.  Yes it would be interesting if more people did x-rays later in life for comparison.  I think there is often too much focus on just getting a passing score at 12-14 months of age (people experimenting with sedation vs. not, submitting multiple times or going a-stamp if the OFA fails, etc). There's often not much to compare between a prelim and 24 month x-ray.  I intend to x-ray my male in the next year or two to compare, but like this dog he is constantly training and competing. To be honest, for a pet dog I doubt I would re-xray later on unless I thought something was wrong (but such data would be useless anyway as far as evaluating longevity for breeding). Luckily my vet does not make a "re-check" like that cost-prohibitive (I also do not understand why an OFA x-ray has to cost people upwards of $500).

I sent OFA an email asking about stats on older dogs.

I meant OFA offers a reduced fee for a re-evaluation, not a FREE evaluation.

I don't understand why vets have to charge so much for an OFA xray either. I guess they do it because they can.

I saw a few OFA at 24 months dogs done again when older and there was essentially no change at all. It would be interesting to see xrays and follow ups on sled dogs, Idatarod competitors especially. There is no more strenuous activity for any dog than working as a racing or freighting dog.

I hope you'll post Nikon's. I know he's very active, but he's not running all day every day, is he? I wonder if he'll have more or less wear and tear, ie, is there a point where there is TOO much exercise (like possibly the dog I posted) but moderate to heavy frequent exercise is just right for preserving good hips? Or, is constant movement better? Without a large sample of very detailed findings, we'll likely never know, but I still would like to know more as opposed to less about my own dogs' relatives' joint health over a lifetime, not just "they were "a" stamped at 12mos." 

Nan, I don't know. But he was used quite a bit for breeding, and I'm sure she wouldn't have continued to breed him if he were producing bad hips. She was a real stickler for improving hips, and frequently consulted Fred Lanting over hip and joint issues with her dogs.

Should have taken notes after our conversation, so the details were preserved for posterity! 

Another story she told me showed why x-rays are SO necessary for determining hip status. She had an expensive imported German male, and was getting him ready for his Sch. II. He was doing the scaling wall and A-frame with no difficulty.

Then, somone wanted to breed to him, so she had him x-rayed. (You didn't do x-rays as a routine thing in those days.)

The vet called her in to see the films. He said the dog had just about the WORST hips he'd seen in his many years of practise.

Of course, she had him neutered, and found a pet home for him in the country, where he'd get lots of exercise to help keep his muscles strong.

Cool, Blitzen. I'm curious to see what they reply with.

The only thing I could see in Iditarod dogs that would be in their favor as far as less-damaging activity would be that it's  not a lot of repeated jumping. I would think hard landings over time would be worse..though that may affect elbows more than hips. I dunno. I find it all fascinating.

As far as post 24mos. xrays, I think most dogs are done by 24mos. as far as development, but I've had a few who I know were not (via xray) before that, so I think it's more likely to see big differences between prelims or SV- rated dogs and old age xrays than certification films and old age films.  

Personally, I prefer to breed to older dogs when possible, so we know more about how they age- do they get achy and creaky at 6? Are they gray at 4? Do their stomachs get sensitive? Are they plagued with allergies later in life? Does their eyesight suffer? Have half their progeny bloated by 3-5? Part of why I bought Caleb was the age of his sire...I think he was 11. His mother was maybe 5...with females you don't really have that luxury of waiting til they're that old. This last litter I bred, the sire is going to be 9 in June (Filius vom Dahlener Land). The last litter's sire was 7 (Boy von Zorra). I prefer the mature boys; I feel it's a little less of a crapshoot as far as overall health. Like people, some just age better than others. 

An aquaintance who ran a team in the Iditarod and who has bred a lot of hard working sled dogs has rexrayed all her OFA'd dogs after they died. Only a few have exhibited any arthritic changes and she has made it a policy to eliminate those particular bloodlines from her breeding program whenever she could. 

I had the opportunity to rexray one of my males when he was 10. Ironically he was one of the brothers who OFA rated as mildly dysplastic at 24 months and who was redone a month later and got a good. At any rate, his hips were still perfect at 10, no changes whatsoever. He had a back problem, otherwise I'd have probably not have xrayed him again. He wasn't bred a lot, produced maybe 40 puppies in the US, a few bitches pg to him went to Italy and as far as I knew,  all xrayed had normal hips. His dam was an excellent, his sire a good and the entire litter was OFA certified - 6 goods, one fair. That helped convince me that breeding normal to normal and paying a lot of attention to family history is the way to go. Not a GSD.

Cool about the sled dogs...but I'm confused...xrayed them after they were dead?