Checking Validity of Titles, SV Hips and Kkl claims .. Germany, USA, Canada, other countries - Page 2

The link to the WinSis site that I found

http://www.schaeferhunden.eu/winsis_x/winsissearch.php?tp=1

I entered some Czech dogs that I know have titles and came up blank .. apparently not being in WinSis does not prove a negative.  People are putting titles on dogs that don't have them and apparently there is no way to check that or Kkl or breed show ratings.  Just like the OFA ratings of some dogs .. if you check many posted OFA scores on the PDB you will find some of them that are bogus.  So I guess the take home message is that you must see the actual paperwork or facsimile proving the dog has the titles, Kkl or show rating score.  That doesn't even take into account those breakfast titles and pay to play show ratings which German's tell me are commonplace in Germany and also no doubt in other countries.  

Maybe I am using the wrong WinSis .. please confirm the link I am using.

I entered an SV dog that I owned and she was there .. so maybe WinSis is only accurate for SV dogs??  

That's the right link and I think you have pretty much assessed the situation. If it's on Winsis you can be reasonably comfortable it exists. If it's not, you have to go to the source and decide if you trust the source.

In my experience, Winsis is not always accurate with the information. I have found errors in regard to my own dogs, and have spoken with others who found information about their dogs to be incorrect.
 

Bubba wrote: "That doesn't even take into account those breakfast titles and pay to play show ratings which German's tell me are commonplace in Germany and also no doubt in other countries."
It´s NOT commonplace but it does happen, and I do feel sorry for it, but again, it´s NOT the norm.

Whatever you are looking for ( titles, show ratings, breed survey, HD/ED ) ALWAYS ask for official documents. These documents belong to the dog! Don´t trust the internet...

 

You can always ask to see original paperwork. 

Best Regards,
Cheryl

The story that I heard was that at a big breed show in Germany the cost was $1100 US for a dog to finish top 30, the owner passed on the bribe and finished 110.  I think saying that who the owner of the dog is may be more important than the actual qualities of the dog and could turn a G into a SG or a SG into a V would be a fair statement either in Germany or any other country.  The reverse is true as well.  Better buy what you see in front of you and forget the show ratings and Kkl.  I have also seen dogs titled in Germany that the trainer apparently forgot to train very well and apparently the dog was much better there than back in the USA or perhaps their breakfast was very good.  The message I have gotten over the years is that the GSD world and the dog world makes used car salesmen look like apostles for truth and honesty.  Buyer beware and double check every fact.  Buy what you see and forget the titles and fluff about Kkl and show ratings as far as price and quality go.  As they said on the TV drama The Wire , "the bigger the lie the more they want to believe".

Hukka .. WINSIS the most accurate out there ??  A 500 pound bomb has a kill radius of about a quarter mile on flat ground but our military stresses the accuracy of the guidance system.  If a dog is in Winsis it is likely good data but not always .. if not in Winsis then it is useless and a huge number of dogs aren't in Winsis.  It takes a lot of effort to prove or disprove a dog's credentials and even then the person with false claims faces little or no sanctions from any club or organization they belong to.  It's catch me if you can and then "so what" .. they just keep on doing it anyway and say catch me if you can again .. it's a major problem that hurts everyone both buyer and seller.

It´s always buyer beware, no matter which business...
But honestly, I´m tired of all these "stories" about cheating, bribes, and so on.
Bubba, " a big breed show " in Germany with more than 110 dogs in one class is the BSZSchau only, NO judge would place a dog within the top 30 for 1100 dollars, that´s ridiculous.
Don´t believe every rumor you hear
There are several 10000 people in Germany training, titling, and showing their dogs, almost all of them do a good job.

I´ll never understand people buying dogs sight unseen, and I´ll never understand people believing, that they are able to buy a really good dog for a few bucks.
If people are willing to spend money for a dog, they either should buy a puppy AND TRAIN or buy an adult dog AFTER proofing its working abilities.
In the States people are willing to pay 2000 dollars or more for a 8 weeks old puppy, but if the ADULT, HEALTH TESTED, SHOW RATED, TRAINED AND TITLED ( Bh, AD, IPO1 ) 3000 dollar dog out of Germany isn´t perfect, you are astonished ??? Really?

Sorry, forgot to mention: SV in Germany does have proof for every single trial and show rating/breed survey held in my country, you only need to ask, as several posters mentioned already.
I feel sorry for you, that other countries including the US are not able to register their dogs accordingly.