it really begs the question - Page 2

Oh, I know you can get the dogs for a lot less money from eu. I don't dispute that. I don't know the current exchange, but I would guess you'd have about eighteen hundred, with shipping, plus about 200 for a broker and airport handling fees and taxes, another 75 or so. So it still comes to about two thousand for a pup, and no warranty, generally. But I can see the allure.

I guess I have a bit of a different take on the price of dogs anywhere. Buyers have the option of not paying more than they think a dog is worth and breeders have the option of pricing their dogs for what they feel they are worth. Every dog brings something different to the table,  not all are worth the same amount to the same buyer. It's up to the buyer to do his or her homework and walk away from a dog they feel is priced too high. IMO a breeder should be able to ask whatever they want for a dog they are selling without criticism, it's up to the buyer to decide if that dog fits in their program and whether or not it is worth the asking price TO HIM OR HER.

Hi again,

Just wanted to comment on Joanro's statement "...in the US breeders generally have replacement guarantee, not available in eu. Shipping from eu for adult dog is significantly more than 800. also, in US, one can see the pup/ dog before buying, for generally
less than flying to eu to see the dog before buying."

Yes, generally all of the breeders in US and Canada have a replacement guaranty put into contracts. However, we all know that these guaranties are just false promises if the breeders don't stand behind written contract. How many times did we see people coming on this forum to post about breeders not standing behind their written warranties. How many times did we see breeders making owners jump through the hoops in order to get a replacement puppy?  Usually you have to send the first dog back in order to get another, and I guess you pay for shipping both ways (old dog back, new dog in). How many of us would send a 2 year old dog back to the breeder in order to get a puppy replacement? We get emotionally connected to our dogs and NA breeders know that...
USA is big country and not all people live near the breeder of their choice, but generally you can see the dog either by flight 2-3 hours or driving 3-10 hours.
Shipping from Frankfurt to USA/Canada is not significantly more than $800 , it should not be more than $1100

For example - direct return flight from Chicago to Frankfurt with Air Berlin for middle of November is $928. You can travel your self over there to see the dog and bring it back with you on the same plane. If the dog is less than 6kg it can be taken with you in the cabin. Extra cost for this is ($140). If your dog is over 6kg it will be transported in the hold. Extra cost of this is $200.

As a  cost reference to the above we can use example trip from Denver to Chicago in the same time frame. Cost of this return flight with United or AA is $345.80. Add additional $100 for excessive baggage (for dog&kennel - not sure if they allow this) and you end up with $445.80

Following is just for fun and costs are not set in stone :)

Now comes the math and lets assume puppy's sire is one of this years VA dogs:

Cost for EU for puppy 2 months old:
Puppy = $800 (can be less than this but not significantly more)
You going  there and picking up the puppy (over 6kg shipped in the hold) = $1128

Total =$1928 (could be $200-$300 more or less depending on the puppy price)

Cost for US puppy 2 months old:
Puppy (let's assume) = $2500
Shipping of the puppy in US is generally $239 (United Airlines - does not include your cost of going there to see the dog)

Total = $2739 (median) could be - $500 or +2000 depending on the cost of a puppy

Savings of $811 (average)


Cost of IPO1 2+ year old dog with certified hips and elbows from EU
Dog  = $2500
You going  there and picking up the dog (over 6kg) = $1128
Total = $3628

Cost of IPO1 2+ year old dog with certified hips and elbows from USA
Dog = $5000
Shipping of the dog to you = $349 (United Airlines - does not include your cost of going there to see the dog)
Total = $5349

Savings of $1720  (average - could be more)

 

Some breeders in the US renege on their contracts, most I know do not. With the internet, it's no longer rocket science to learn which breeders do and which breeders don't. It's part of the vetting process that every wise buyer does before signing on the bottom line. If a breeder has not honored a contract  for reasons you don't feel are valid, move on to another breeder who doesn't do that.

The above figures are interesting but have never been a part of the reason I have ever bought a dog of any breed. I don't know anyone who wants to over pay for anything, but if it were all about money, I'd find another hobby other than showing, breeding, training my own dogs. I think in the end it will behoove every GSD breeder in the US to learn to support their peers right here in the US whenever they can rather than look for European bargains.  Other breeds have done it for years and it has paid off for them.

I agree with seeofreds comments/calculations completely, that's exactly where I was coming from in my previous post, I paid TOTAL $2260  for my Remo son from Eu, same pedigree pups in USA were STARTING at $2500 up, and that didn't include the $420 shipping, so just do the math.  Even if the parents are A normal or OFA good hips/elbows, that certainly doesn't guarantee your pup will grow up and have certified good hips, its a crapshoot either way, so I'd rather take a chance on a pup I paid less for and got same pedigree.

And there are just as many breeders in the USA that rip buyers off as other countries, as we've all read on the forums here. A guarantee/contract is only a piece of paper, I've personally learned that myself.  It is only as good as the breeeder is.

There still seems to be at least one additional cost to work into
Seeofred's calculation, I understand that in many (most) cases
now, in some States at least, you really do have to have a
'broker' when you are importing a dog.  While I guess that probably
might not apply where you travel yourself and buy a small, 'carry - on',
puppy, it may mean the overall spend rises a couple of hundred bucks ?

I just don't get it either, I would never do it myself; I rather deal with a broker or an experience breeder here in the US that does importing that is willing to work with you.

Hundmutter, it depends because a lot of the breeders here that I have seen will also import if they offer that service in addition to their own breeding program; which I prefer. I know that at one time FL required the animal to be quarantined; those who live in FL does that still apply if a person imports by themselves without a broker?

Using a broker isn't a guarantee of good results either. Hundreds, maybe thousands, of buyers get cheated by dog brokers every year too. As far as breeders who are known to honor contracts, there are plenty of them in the US, they're easy to find but in most cases one will be paying a higher price for the dog and that's fair. It is the responsibility of the buyer to know which lines they want and then to do their due diligence when looking for an ethical breeder. It takes time.

Only Hawaii and Guam have quarantine requirements for pet dogs being imported. Other U.S. states and territories only require the pet be vaccinated against rabies (also known as rage)at least 30 days before entering the United States. The rabies vaccination does not apply, however, to puppies less than three months of age or to dogs originating or located for at least six months in areas designated by the U.S. Public Health Service as being rabies-free (rage-free).

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/461/~/quarantine-requirements-for-imported-dogs,-including-

 

Of course, the OP would be dealing with this: http://www.daff.gov.au/biosecurity/cat-dogs

There are 17 steps, if the export country is USA or Germany.

If not stated by the law, I would never ever use a middle man (in form of a broker or anything else) to buy or sell goods, products or anything else. 
It is the nature of the business in general that the broker/middle man has to put some extra cost for himself as he is not doing this for fun.
Simple logic is that if you can buy directly from the source it will always cost you less than buying via some middle man / broker.

Nature of people in NA is that we are "lazy" (generalizing again) to do anything ourselves. What do I mean by this... as most of NA people have enough money and live in generally good wealth (thanks God)  they would rather pay for the stuff than eventually try to do/finish them self.  Now, I don't blame anybody for this as society in which we live has made us that way....we have turned (generalization) into pure consumers and materialists.