Question for Breeders - Page 2

isn't this the breeding to the 18 month old with no titles or hip xrays, brucella.... nothing?? I don't know how you could expect someone to do the right thing, when you aren't.. sorry I've been biting my tongue.. after all the grief you have taken over this and now you want people to do the right thing?? Honestly..... are the hips on your male even done?? Has he been titled and tested free of brucella??

I can tell u of what I trusted a local teacher of kids to do ,and what a nightmare I went through and Im a long time veteran at this and I dropped my business hat and put on the "nicey,nice hat " okay since u just came from the vets office and got ur shots and a check, Ill let u breed . She brought the female , signed the contract, paid the fee, watched as they tied up and left her for three more matings. On the WAY TO THE TRUCK , as they left , the husband said, "we've bred her before and she never carried any pups"> and we knew she was ready because yesterday she was penetrated by our neighbors black lab, but dont worry , hes neutered. I almost had a coronary right then. As he shut the door, cranked his truck , left my premises, I thought, Im the craziest woman in Texas, so I called my vet. His reply" Cash the check, call them to come get their dog" and in 60-65 days when she doesnt have pups tell them , to get a rebreed she has to have a brucellosis test. At that time , if she does have the disease , u made ur fee for the $10,000 worth of worry u just got put thru." I had my male tested the next day and he was neg and checked again in a month. Well, as we expected, no pups, and the female did have brucellosis and I almost died another quick death, but again tested Bear and he is still clear. This woman had the qall to email me after all her test came back witht he Vd, and ask me shouldn't I give her back her fee since she had no pups and u probably saw the smoke all the way in Finland, as to my reply, and even admitted that I was the professional that had mud on my face for being negligent in allowing her on my premises with a B Test. Sometimes we get human and do a stupid thing. I will never ever even breed outside my dogs. Its not worth it. I have all I need and nothing any one else need except a male pup they can raise and breed all they want, if they meet my critieror, to even buy the pup..................See even we make mistakes......

Every contract ought to have something about liability and disclosure, too. I will tell you the stud dog owner's worst nightmare (actually, there are several, but this one I'll bet you never heard of, before). A neighbor brings a bitch to me to breed to my really good SchH3 dog, who is absolutely precious and irreplaceable. I look at the bitches pedigree and it looks good. Solid OFAs and ROMs all behind her and he got her from a good breeder. All in all, a nice bitch. So, I asked him about her hips and he said that she had fallen off of a balcony when she was younger and she required surgery to put her hip together. Well, with a background like she had, and the story seemed to be credible, there was no point in going any further with the OFA requirement. I looked at the x-ray and it seemed to be just as he said. So, we get down to the business of breeding, by and by. My dog ties her, but he is tied for a very, very long time and seems to want to pull out, but something stops him. He is growling a bit and looking around. This goes on for awhile, and I figured she was just a very tight bitch. Finally he pulls out, screaming, and his penis is gushing blood! Thankfully, it was nothing more than a scratch. But it went most of the length of his penis. I could not figure out what the hell was going on, and then I remembered that this guy had the x-ray of the bitch. I asked to see it again, and there it was! I had glanced at it and saw the one damaged hip and one normal, but never in my wildest dreams did I expect what happened.. The hip was held together with a sharp stainless steel pin, driven through the femoral neck and into the acetabulum, and it had actually pierced the vagina and scratched my dog as he pulled out! I kid you not! It just goes to show what can happen. And maybe we should have a clause in our contracts that says the bitch owner may be held liable for damages to our dogs! I was very lucky I did not lose my stud dog or his future performance that day. I did tell the bitch owner that he had to go and have that taken care of immediately, or it would harm the pups in the delivery. He took care of it and had no more problems. But you really cannot be too careful with your stud dogs!

And I have to say that dealing with novices is the pits. They suck! They are such whiners and a pain in the A$$. This guy who nearly destroyed my stud dog did get a litter and he made some good sales. Then he got a big head and was heard bragging that he was going to "put me out of business", by becoming my new competition! Yah.. With his one bitch! He ended up losing his job and the bank took his house. He could not keep up the payments, so soon we saw no more of him, but for awhile, he was going to go into the dog business and crap on me! Terrible story about the brucellosis positive, but if it will make you feel better, the typical office test for this is a plate agglutination test and false positives are very, very common. The only true test is a culture, and that takes a long time to get. Last I knew the blood had to be sent to a lab in New York. Breedings should therefore be arranged far in advance, no less than two weeks, and a month would be better. Otherwise, you are both up S**t Creek, if that office brucellosis test comes back positive, aren't you? My worst worry would be that this idiot is going to go "consumer rights" on you and turn you in to a District Attorney's office for fraud or something stupid like that. It has happened. I just don't want to deal with people anymore. Sometimes you have to, but you need to be very selective about your clients.

Haha.. You're taking me down memory lane, here. One lady bred to one of my dogs with a bitch I sold her as a puppy, and then I saw her later with a bunch of strange-looking pups in the car. They looked like Doberman puppies, and it turns out that they were! She told me that she had seen the neighbor's DP in her yard, tied up with the bitch, after we did the breeding, and asked me when she was going to get her AKC papers signed!!!! Needless to say, she NEVER got that litter registration signed by me. This woman was very naive and did not know to complain to anyone, but you can see what would happen if she had gone to an activist prosecutor who was in cahoots with the animal rights / anti-breeding activists. I would get my A$$ reamed, is what!!! Like I said, I hate dealing with the general public! To me, it's not worth it! I'll find some other way to make money and anyone else's money doesn't touch my dogs! They only get a dog from me if I know them or they pass a close scrutiny and background check!

Some years ago I was told by AKC that a "stud fee" was payment for a service - NOT for puppies. Perhaps the person you are dealing with might better understand it in those terms. Judy

I thought bruccelosis was pretty much wiped out in this country. About ten years ago, I was breeding a mare, and I had to get a bruccelosis test on her. The vet, who was a reproductive specialist in horses, told me there had not been a case of bruccelosis in the USA in 20 years. There was this one case mentioned in this thread, and it is the first real case of I have ever heard of. Does anyone know any genuine, scientifically based information on the status of bruccelosis in the USA, and then in other parts of the world? Just really curious about this. Thank you in advance. Veronica

Hi Veronica: Are yu in Alaska? Yes the lady in Henderson Texas has a bitch with brucellosis and I have the results. The test are sent to Texas A& M and it takes 7-9 days. I would be curious to see how many cases they have seen. I will ask my vet to call them and research that. Her vet told her 'no one gets dogs tested anylonger and u see what I went thru. WHen they told me a neutered dog(haha_) had tied her the day before and she had been bred before and never carried any pups , I almost croked, and then 9 mos later wanted her fee back since her dog had VD and there were no pups. SOmedays I have to pinch myself to see if I am in the real world or make believe.....I will never take that chance again , and I dont care what vet tells that tale of no brucellosis, how many bitches are there, because a vet says no bruce and that what they have when the abort or have dead pups? It is comunical to humans if u get the vaginal solution on u when u clean up the mess if pups are dead in the sac or when treating ur female. I dont know what she did with her female, U have to be a walking detective when u ask for OFA papers, reg cert, and Health certificates to know if they even belong to the dog ur dealling with. Then u have to inspect the pups when they come and decide if another dog got to her after u bred ur male..

Zmeli, FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS FOR YOU IS BRUCELOSIS TEST ON THAT BITCH !!!! NO IF'S NO ANDS NO BUTS GO STRAIT TO THE VET TOMMOROW WITH THIS IDIOT AND GET THAT DONE !!!! I don't think you understand... Brucelosis posative means that the bitch has a Venerial disease passable to anything and everything she breeds with, and then they pass it to anything and everything they breed with, NO LIVE PUPS !!!! Pups are usually born dead, however in rare cases they can survive several months some even to adulthood,(VERY RARE) However they're quality of life is shit, and they too are Bruc posative and will spread it to anything they breed with and so on and so on. DO YOU UNDERSTAND ???? This is not funny, This is not just a mistake or oversight, You may well start an epidemic if you don't get a handle on this, I'm shocked too that the bitch owner did not ask for a bruc pull on your male before breeding to him, I ALWAYS DO. Honestly, I think you have alot to learn you had in a few of your posts indicated that you wish to learn "HOW TO DO THINGS RIGHT" (your words) YOUR DOING EVERYTHING WRONG SO FAR YOU NEED TO STOP, You should have stopped breeding that bitch when you first posted your first post and said she was only 18 months old, do you even realize that she will probably never OFA Good now ???????? YOUR NOT DOING ANYTHING TO IMPROVE THE BREED, YOU WILL BE THE REASON SHEPHERDS GET A BAD REPUTATION AGAIN IF YOU DON'T STOP !!!!!!! YOU NEED TO DO THE RIGHT THING !!!!!! YOU NEED TO GET FURTHER EDUCATION. That's all I will ever say to you again, until you can take some responsibility and STOP your BAD behavior, and irresponsible breeding practices.

bruccelosisis an on-going problem in the cattle industry. That is a big reason ranchers all around Yellowstone want hunts on the buffalo leaving the park. Many have tested positive and can pass it on to the cattle. States work very hard and it takes many years to be declared bruccelosis. One positive can undo years of work and the state has to start from scratch for certification. Great information here. Thanks to all.