diferences between Czech and DDR lines - Page 2

how about kennels that are mixes the 2. how are those dogs turning out? they aren't like breeding a show line w/ a workin line,right? there is a kennel jinopo that it seems that most of there dogs (and breedings) are a combination. it doesn't seem like there are many "pure" DDR or Czech dogs especially here in the USA. can anyone give me a DDR kennel and a Czech kennel that only use PURE blood in their breedings here in the states. thanx Tina

Look at Teejay of Wilhendorf, he's super correct temperamentally and hard as nails and could certainly be a top profung winner here or in Germany if his owner chose to specialize him in that instead of zuchschau. yes, i agree teejay is a very good dog, but how many litters did it take to produce(finally)a dog like teejay?? but that's another subject :))

Here is another thread on the czech lines. http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/109071/site_id/1#import

tina5, actually, not very many, since TeeJay comes from a line of males that appear to be dominant for correct GSD working temperament>>>2X VA Enzo Buchhorn is the source which was carried through Nero Norbachtal. Enzo is hard as nails and often produces it. Yet he has been very devoted to his owners and handlers and is a great dog temperamentally (high intelligence and trainability too). His son VA Nero is also hard as nails and has produced correct temperament liberally (plus super good sidegait too). The unfortunate flap with Nero's alleged but unproven shoulder surgery prevented the dog from getting the recognition and glory he deserved (I now don't believe there ever was any--I believe that a contract dispute was behind this allegation). Anyone fortunate to have a son out of Nero with good confirmation that is SV registered before the banned date like Teejay probably has a very worthwhile dog. One cannot minimize the actual quality of Teejay's bitework (it is most impressive). If it turns out that Teejay continues the producing line for ideal GSD working temperament from Enzo then Wihlendorf kennels really has something there (I would expect this to be so, but only time will tell). In addition to ideal GSD working temperament Teejay has great confirmation.

"BOTTOM Line: Pedigree...period." Which can mean the potential benefits of outcrossing with an entirely different gene population, as tina5 points out. A couple examples that come to mind are Eagle Eichenluft (DDR X West), Molinari Enzo (West X Czech), Baltazar Galan (West X Czech), and other nice examples. I prefer to refrain from stereotyping the major genepools, though differences may be subtle or not, the assumptions often made don't hold hold entirely true to the bloodlines within them.

Having owned both and being a pedigree freak , generally I think there are small differences in the two but more similarity. Pure DDR dogs tend to be later maturing,less prey,more bone,more defense when 4 to 5 years old. Do not make for top sport dogs as they are handler sensitive and some of the training methods of the top trainers aren't as effective. The Czech dogs tend to have more prey, earlier development of fight/defense, good bone ,and much more suited for police work as they can start at earlier age for some of the training. These are just generalities,but todays newer Czech lines have the DDR dogs as a base in many cases but the older Czech lines were harder, less bone, not as good structure ,but equipped to do the job that the communist regime desired. JMO

Gustav This is very true I own and breed DDr bloodlines. I have been telling people this for a long time the tend not to believe this. These dogs will not be top sport competitors and are not a good choice for any sport. I think breeders just don't tell buyers this it may not make the sale. " Pure DDR dogs tend to be later maturing,less prey,more bone,more defense when 4 to 5 years old. Do not make for top sport dogs as they are handler sensitive and some of the training methods of the top trainers aren't as effective."

Johnnyk9, Having said that about DDR dogs they are probably the closest thing to the real GSD temperament in that they are fantastic family protectors and make excellent police dogs if allowed to mature as their fight drive is strong.The other difference in the two is hips! I think the DDR dogs have the highest percentage of good hips than any other subset of GSD. Surely superior to the Czech dogs which we are comparing. Dogs like Lord, Don Rolandsteich, Artus, are legendary hip correctors. They will dominate in their progeny in terms of good hips. I have a bitch that is linebred 4-5 on Artus v Westhole and her father is 2,3-4 on Held von Ritterberg, and not only are her hips great, but the flexibility I have in breeding her is wonderful.

Gustav Yes i agree DDR dogs do have a % of good hips. Police don't use them that much any more because they were use to buying adults years back. Today there is mainly young dogs available so police don't want know or want to wait for them to mature. I agree with you that ddr dogs are handler sensitive and some of the training methods of the top trainers aren't as effective. They also can ruin the dogs as well when they use harsh corrections and just do not know when to back off. I have found that many people do not know the bloodlines of the east dogs. I have seen many many dogs advertised on this data base that are just not or have to little east blood. I have had some good Czech dogs as well these dogs had a good amount of ddr blood. But i would not say the are the same as a pure ddr dog. So i agree with you and DDR-DSH only

I, myself tend to prefer Czech lines for their drives, but mostly only those with DDR ancestry. Most notably, through Titus-Bero-Held combinations of linebreeding. I have one litter now, linebred 4-5 Bero vom Friedersdorfer Flur, and another that is 5,(6)-5,5 Held vom Ritterberg and 4-5 Astor vom Waldidyll. But the first mentioned is an outcross of sorts, with the dam being half west / half czech. Thing to remember is the Czechs used DDR lines to improve their breeding, because neither genepool in itself would have usefully served their intended purpose.