AKC shows.......what happened? - Page 2

Sorry Gustav,

We are talking an AKC confirmation show. There was a really nice black dane right in front of where I sat that was in good shape. He didnt even place. I saw a nice brit, a black cocker, a flat coated retriever, a rough collie, and an aussie none of which placed. Is that better?

It still does not take from the obese lab, scared dane that was in poor condition (who did place), and an American Staff that was actually disqualified because the dog was limping around the ring (havent seen that before) I'm a very fair person when dogs in the breed ring are in shape and as close to the standard as possible.

The AmStaff wouldn't be DQ'd for limping, just excused from the conformation (no i) ring.

I show in AKC conformation.  I love it.  I don't particularly think championships mean much beyond bragging rights, but I'm not terribly impressed by an SV rated dog, either.  I show because I enjoy the style of exhibition.  I try and prove my dogs in other venues.  I have not yet bred a litter because I wash dogs with poor temperaments.

I'm probably in for a lot more disappointment before I have any success.  I keep trying anyway.

I recently was "very proud" to have a female German Shepherd I bred, rejected from the AKC show circuit.
The owner was told she did not have enough angulation and that her head was too masculine.
I gave myself a nice pat on the back, for a job "well done" lol

Xeph, I've done some confirmation showing and I agree, I had a blast. It really is much tougher to run with grace (at least for me) and show your dog au excellent, not trip and fall, all within the confines of a small area. Hats off to anyone who has a popular breed that can "breed and handle their own dog and win.

Barb

If one doesn't know all the nuanaces about each breed, it's hard to know from ringside  if an AKC judge puts up the right dog or not. It's not only a matter of which dog appears to be in the best condition or the dog that moves the cleanest or has the shiniest coat. Most breeds have some very specific breed characteristics that must be present.  Sometimes dogs exhibit some sort of temperament issue when the judge examines them - they might growl under their breath or show their teeth; that may not be visible from ringside. I once did a sweeps where the best female by far ended up last in a big class because she growled at me; no one watching from ringside understood why I didn't put her first.  Over weight is generally discouraged in all breeds.

Generally GSL and GWL won't win consistently in the AKC ring unless they have a flat back and a big side gait where their feet move close to the ground and don't "lift" in front. Many GSL's and GWL's I've seen do not have the front movement wanted  the AKC ring; they lift their front legs and pound the ground and they are roached to a degree, some are worse than others.  Head are also very different, AKC heads tend to be more refined in the AKC dogs; heavy, short muzzles with loose flews are not desired, neither are dewlaps. Few AKC dogs would place well at an SV show either.

I try to encourage GSD owners to do SOMETHING with their dog/s be it conformation, IPO, OB, tracking, whatever they enjoy.

Blitzen, 
VERY WELL WRITTEN!!  In order for anyone to understand the judging in an AKC conformation show, a person MUST know what are ALL the breed characteristics the judge is judging on. More often than not, in an ALL BREED show the judge will judge according to the standard, NOT DOG AGAINST DOG!  Yes there are some judges that will let politics and trends cloud their judgment. But it is up to the owner and the handler to stay clear of the judges that will do that.  What I don't understand is why many GSL owners will enter AKC conformation shows with dogs that are not to the AKC breed standards. When they are "dumped" because of lifting, roached back or faulty heads, they bash the AKC judging.  Think of it this way. How many ASL GSDs, do you see being shown in the GSL shows? Not many I bet. Do you think its because they know not to show because what the judges allow in those shows are not the same as in the AKC.  I think its called common sense and good decision making on the part of the owner and handler. Guess it could be considered, to each his own!  Just alittle something to think about.   This is just my JMO !!!

I agree with Blitzen. Do something with your GSD.  Get out and do something, and don't worry what other people, say, think, or do.  Its your dog, your time, your effort and your money. Make yourself happy and do what works and is best for you and your dog.   Your dog is a reflection of the type of owner you are!!  

What good is a standard if you are not judged according to it....how valid is a judgement if it is not based on universally accepted standard? What should be more important to a Judge,.....the standard or personal likes? It's so confusing to me....here I thought I knew what good German Shepherds were after a few years in the breed, I thought I knew the standard after using it as a basis for my concept of the breed for a few years, and now I learn there are secret things the judge sees that I don't understand that allows placings in the show ring. That's why I tell young people you never stop learning.

Gustav, I feel pretty sure that if you and I did a written critique of the same dog's conformation, it would appear that we were looking at 2 different dogs. Many times at AKC shows the dog that won one day, goes dead last the next under a different judge. We don't see that as often in the SV ring for many reasons. AKC shows are plain and simple beauty contests where the judges are supposed to compare each dog against their understanding of that breed's standard of perfection, not against the other dogs in the class. AKC requires parent clubs to facilitate judges ed programs at every national specialty (for all the good that does).  Seasoned breeders know which dogs are breed worthy and which not, they don't need to look at show wins. Only novices or those who have no knowedge of their breed or dogs in general base their breedng programs on show wins. For most breeders I know,  progeny evaluation and health clearances trump show wins every time.

Yes, there are certain things that are seen by a judge in the ring that are not obvious from ringside.  I'm sure you are not confused at all by that.

A dog can have the 'best' structure FOR THE TYPE OF SHOW IT IS
ENTERED IN;  and have good body condition, a clean and shiny healthy
looking coat ... yet still be "thrown out with the rubbish" if, when the
judge looks in its mouth, it has 6 teeth unaccounted for, or an overshot
bite not visible from ringside. Or, as has been said, it is growling softly at
the judge throughout the individual examination.  Or if the judge finds
anything else wrong that the spectators cannot readily see.  It does not
automatically mean the judge doesn't know the Standard and what they are
supposed to be looking for;  or that they are doing 'favours' - although it CAN
mean those things too !      Who'd be a dog judge ?

Don't know how it is in other parts of the country, but the entries for GSD in AKC shows here have dropped a lot. The last ones I attended had 6-8 total, in the 80's these same all breed shows had  70 - 100.

I think there are multiple reasons for this, but one of the biggest issues is the judges who play the handler game. There just aren't many new people coming in and a lot of those who do don't stick around.