Van, Von, Vom - Page 2

Hi Excalibur! You will need to spell it correctly: “van Rensselaer” would be correct, (‘van’ originally written in small letters, only later with capital ‘V’), if we are talking about one of the founders of NY. Wikipedia is interesting, I have to stress I have found other sources stating Kiliaen would be born in 1586 instead of 1585, other sources even write 1580. His parents lived in Hasselt, Overijssel, Holland (NOT Belgium), in the ‘Veluwe’ where he was born out of Hendrik (working in the army) and Maria Pasraet (from a printing company family) being the third child, and named after his grandfather. Don’t be mistaken! Kiliaen (initially in the diamant trade and investing in the West Indian Company) never set foot on American soil! He merely invested in land (bought from the Indians) later called “Rensselaerswyck” (near Albany in the state of New York), being the only Dutch colony in Northern America which lasted for quite a long time and of which the name still lives as ‘Rensselaer county’. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiliaen_Van_Rensselaer I'm not sure if we are talking about the same. DO watch out, there are still many people with that name, all over the place. Make sure not to misuse it. "from Rensselaer County" would be pretty neat, that is, if you actually live there.

Van is from Holland Nederlande it is aristoratic and connected to Royelty.The languish in Holland is Dutch no connection to German and it is not lower German(Deutsch) Languish as Bob writes it.Vom and Von meaning from and of is German and was also connected to Aristocrats Graf,Baron usw.Many Germans where forced to sell there Titles for a good amount of money to sustain them selves and family.As my Grandfather had to do.He was from the Nederlande and later in his life moved to Germany.Remember Dutch means Holland,and Deutsch means German. Greetings von Charlotte and yes I am back from Germany and everything worked out well.

Charlotte, I will offer this as an explanation of my statement. Even though I have spoken English since moving to north America during 1977 and ceased to be a German national during 1981, I know our people's history fairly well and can trace my own ancestral line for five-hundred fifty (550) years. And my family's name was never titled. Born a commoner, I am a commoner for life, LOL. The old German language is the mother tongue of so many others, including our modern "high" German language and group of "low" German languages that includes the Dutch language and finally the English language. Hence my comment about the preposition "van" originating from a low German (in this case Dutch) language. I do not type this as a true counter to your statement, but I felt that an explanation should be offered. My expertise is not in the field of linguistics as I am merely an engineer. Regards, Bob-O

Hallo Bob,you are only an Engineer well that means a lot to me this is a great professesion and with a lot of responsibility.I still don't know how to take your explanation with lower German and high German in connection with the Nederlande,Dutch is the language for Holland,and the word van is only coming from Holland that was there tradmark.While the German Aristocrats used the von and vom.Most Amerikans think if they say Dutch that means German but it is not so.Lower German is spoken in Bayern,and other Regions, and we call it dialect they have to learn the higher German in school,and when entering in to a Professional occupation where they have to speak high German. But they prefer to speak there dialect. Which I love to listening to.I am from the Nord.High German is spoken most in the Northern part of Germany such as example Hamburg,Bremen, Luebeck,Kiel usw.You are well informed no criticism attended.Once a German low or high it does not matter we are still the same you and I take our pants on in the same way hmmm maybe not the same but you get my meaning Bob don't you.LOL Greetings, Charlotte

Thank you all for the comments and answers you provided. My family is a direct descendant of the Van Rensselaer family from New York. My great grandmother was the daughter of Schuyler Van Rensselaer Brower (of the NY van rensselaer family)and her mother was the daughter of the last Royal family to rule Poland (Barbara Stanislauska Meuller). She was in love with a man from Germany and they wanted to marry. They came to this country when the Polish royal family left the throne during the invasion of their country. The Van Rensselaer name therefore is inherited by my family with the last one I know of, my cousin, who is also Schuyler Van Renssalaer Brower. I guess my main question would be then could i incorporate the family name in my dog's kennel name by using the van rather than the von, vom or would it be more proper to use the von, vom since i want to incorporate my family heritage in the kennel name?

Xcaliburfarms, I would use the article "van" since it is true to your heritage. It does denote a title from your heritage, and not that of someone else. The title of one's name is no so important these days, but in Europe it does open a few doors, no doubt. It at least makes one ponder whether the person is truly an aristocrat. The German aristocracy lost its edge in 1919 when the Kaiser left Germany for good. I find it neat that you know much about your family, as these days nearly no one knows who they are or were. And, that's not always a bad thing! LOL. Consider yourself a fortunate one. Bob-O

Thank you Bob-0, I will indeed take your advice. I wanted a true blend of the german/polish heritage I have running through my veins as well as the American. I am proud to have been told about my ancestors though for some reason, they felt is wise to not do so in the past few generations for fear of something I didn't quite understand. I have used the xcaliburfarms name for my horses but for my shepherds, I was wanting to use the name which denoted that they were of german lineage as well. Yes, it is neat to know your past as the future is built upon those who came before us as will my shepherds. Thanks again, Have a wonderful Holiday season, Debbie