SchH3 Females - Page 2

lol

Brittany, please answer the question. How many bitches have you titled to Sch 3. How many total dogs have you titled to Sch 3? Angela, how many have you titled; name them. Longhorns, same question. Personally, I tried one and did not have the patience. I'm not saying that don't have drive equal to the males, but they tend not to be as hard and therefore, the handler must be more skilled and patient.

I believe it is harder to find the very strong working females, so the ones being titled are mainly softer and not as powerful as males, therefore SChh1 is enough for them. However strong, powerful females are not impossible to find, they are just not as common. When you find them and train them, you know they can be compared to the strongest males. There are some super working females, they are no problem to train and title, however you have to still realize they are females, they "think" more than males and you can't force them to do the work, they need a good relationship with the handler more so than males to. I loved training and titling my females to Schh3 competition level - they are a challenge but worth it, for me. And before someone asks, I have trained and titled 4 very strong, powerful working females from 0 to Schh3. molly

do collie mixes count?

I work with both males and females and I simply do not see the generalization that others make about how hard it is to train/title a male or a female. Part of the problem with many trainers is that they are unable to adapt to the individual dog. Dogs, just like humans, are different and sometimes one must make adjustments in how one trains. I have worked wth and titled male and female, my male to SchH2 (and he started at almost 3 years), and a female to SchH3. I have many dogs I work now, both male and female, and one can find excellent workers among males and females. One can also find good protection work among females and I have some females that will try to eat you if they get a chance in the protection phase. I also know males who are much less intense. So generalization helps no one, especially new people. There are lots of reasons a given dog, male or female, does not do correct or intense work in any phase, and in the protection work, it begins with a proper foundation and one MUST have a competent helper. What also helps is to spend lots and lots of time working with dogs, even if it is only to watch what others do, and sometime do poorly. It is true that most SchH1 females get bred right away and that is a part of the issue. It is also true that one can spend tremendous amounts of time with a dog only to find it does not reproduce to the standard. For example, my excellent SchH 3, V rated, KKL1 female produces pups in two litters with excellent temperaments, very good to excellent working ability, very nice to excellent structure and pigment, but soft ears. Half of each litter, with two different males, produced pups whose ears are lazy. For that reason, I will not breed her again, even though she is one of the best working ability females I have seen. So I have come to the conclusion that perhaps it is better to breed earlier so as to know what a given dog can produce before spending so much effort and money on any given dog. That is just my opinion......

what hodie says meke werry good sens. it`s allways good to see wath the female reprodus before spending a great deal of money and effort in here. and it is not everyone that have a schutzclub with good helpers, so they have to send the bitch away to make schh1. and kkl and that is expensiv. i am just so glad that i am one of the lucky that have a werry good helper.

Brittany -- good comment -- that is a misnomer for sure -- females are not harder to train -- as a mattter of fact many toimes they are easier -- try to track with a male whose path or track has beren previously crossed by a female canine in heat -- HA -- and many females develop quite an affinty for a male handler -- i cannot prove that with numbers but empirically i have seen this amoungst people working their dogs at times !! siffice to say -- both can be great and one as nice as the pther in training ease !!

spook101, Having never titled one by your own admission, I would suggest you change your tone and choice of words when you post on this board. Your demands are the exact reason why some of the best breeders (show & working) no longer participate or communicate through this medium. Knowing "Angela" as a breeder, personally, I find your "demand" very ignorant and insulting. Your request could have been asked another way if you really wanted to know the answer. She has titled well over 300 dogs including VA rated in the past 27 years. Anyone posting on here should value her input and keep the American ignorance to themself.

Ok, please don't anyone chamber a round and cock the trigger because I am just trying to understand not start an argument.

I don't know how to do that thing where you copy part of someone else's post and respond to it so I'm going to paraphrase.  Somebody said breeders often want to breed a female at a BH level to see how she produces.  But, how can that be ok when it's the common consensus that breeding untitled dogs puts a litter of puppies out there with the traits of a dam who has not been tested under pressure? HONESTLY I just want to understand not criticize.

The other question is: if the dam only has the disposition, drives or whatever term is appropriate to test further than a Sch1; and if people say there are working faults in both show and working line(either too soft or too hard); then wouldn't it help if all the females would go to a Sch3 before breeding? Wouldn't that be a step toward reducing the gap between show and working lines?

Keep in mind I have never done Sch and my knowledge is from reading and internet.  But, it seems like a Sch3 is supposed to weed out the dogs that are crazed or fearful. Maybe my lack of actual experience with it makes me have too shallow an understanding of the reality or philosophy of the sport.

And, yeah, I really hope I didn't step on a landmine here.

Dawg  

Norman I would suggest you change your tone and choice of words! If you don't like America then leave, if you don't live here then mind your own business and shut up.!