Need Judge Change - Page 2

Hi there, longhorns, very well said. As always Bob sees it clear. 4pack, you are right, if you dont like a certain type of dog, then dont buy it - just as simple as that. As to that the dogs you rescued, hats off for that, are healthier, that may or may not be the case. DesertRanger, when the day comes, that i can forsee, what the exact outcome of my breedings are, i will have a big party ! I somewhat find it amusing, that one will seriously have the idear, that if one finds the judging unfair, lets just change the judge ! What i will agree on is, that it is like that, that the "big" judges place for instance oversized dogs in top places, and still always demand the " wanted midium size". And yes, as soon as $$ are involved, it gets muddy. Last thing we need, are the ironic remarks about the different standarts that are out there. Longhors said it quite wright, you will find problem dogs in all lines. If all "working line " bred dogs, would actually be what they are intendet to be, no police agency or workingdog facility would be in desperet need for dogs. Same for "show line", if all show line bred dogs would compete succesfully, there would be no demand for that kind of dog anymore. One thing i would like to mention, if one has an idear of what his intentions are with the dog he purchased, and trains it for a certain task properly, the dog will do the job. ( of course the breed has to capable of doing the job - you wouldnt want to have a sausagedog as a Schutzhund!) I guess we all have to mellow out on this one a bit. Kind Regards Ulli Dresbach

I love that whenever you are having a discussion someone always points out exceptions to the rule! LOL Longhorns I have seen excellent hard hitting Show GSD's with excellent nerves. But we are discussing the increased number of show lines who don't measure up in the nerve dept. I recently saw one high caliber practically peeing it was so scared. You do that Ulli! More power to you. I am serious too, we need breeders to start insisting on proper standards being adhered too at the shows. (never happen) Also Ulli, I never suggested you could predict the outcome of your breeding. You certainly should have a good ideal on repeat breedings. I do have problems with breeders who sell less than top show/work quality pups as top quality to green pet buyers who then breed thinking they have the best!Many of these pet owners start breeding asap just to make money.

If more people would research there would not be as much of a problem. ie: if more people would check out the dogs in person, test them, see first hand their temperament, working abilities, and check out progeny to see what they are producing and what their ancestor's produced.... before they buy... then it would almost eliminate the prospect of selling a whimpy dog's progeny. In turn eliminating those who "magically" pass schutzhund, or just barely pass on their own. Even though that is impractcal for many people, and there will always be people who buy ONLY by a VA show title and not check anything else out... it sure would help. Debby

djc Well said. I agree 100%!

I agree with you DesertRangers. I think showlines were stronger 10 years ago and overall have suffered in their drives and nerve in recent times. I don't know if this is training or the dog. More likely it's a combination as many helpers do not want to work showlines. And titles are slammed on them in such a short time. But I've also seen problems in the working lines. They have drive, but what I have been seeing the last few years are manic dogs that carry their energy and drive externally. They act crazed rather than internalizing their drives without being hit over the head with a 2x4. And I've seen lots of nerve problems in the working lines as well. I guess we'll all have to work harder.

Longhorn: A lot of the problem u are talking about in the working lines, is because they force train and want a title right now.,,,,,,right now like yesterday, and like instant oatmeal..u can burn it real quick...I hear all kinds of tales, here in Texas about some of the techniques used to force train and get the job done...I feel maybe this is the cause,, It takes time to let the dog ENJOY what he is taught and do it for the love of the sport and become a team with his owner not a whipping post and everytime it gets a command by a hot headed owner ,it does it because it has to or else the concequenses of immediate performance gets dealt on the dog....

yellowrose, you say this is the problem with the working lines: "because they force train and want a title right now.,,,,,,right now like yesterday." I beg to differ! Most of the working line dogs are trained and handled HOT. What you state is precisely the problem with the show lines. Most of the show dogs in national competition are trained by professionals who are paid big bucks to get the SchH3 before 24 months, especially for the more promising show dogs. This is so they can be shown in the adult working classes. And who cares if they really can do the work? After they get the "so called" title, the only work they do is practice for the show bite work session and breed, breed, breed.

Anyone here willing to volunteer to serve as a judge? Its a huge sacrafice of time away from home, family, training one's own dogs... Thankless and essentially unpaid. I do NOT agree that the show lines were stronger ten years ago. 25-30 yrs. ago, yes, but back then the show lines and the working lines were the SAME lines. The 80's were particularly bad for poor working qualities in show dogs. I think they're a LOT stronger since the Martin Bros. died and Messlerv"served notice" his first year as SV/WUSV president at the '97 BSZS, God rest his soul. 30% of the females failed protection that year. Things have improved a lot since, both in show breeding AND training. Shelley