Working/Show cross article - Page 2

Actually if you look at many working lines they go back to what would be referred to as 'show' lines. I don't think this is a new concept. However, I do think that there is more 'difference' between these 2 lines than we once saw. Personally I think it all comes down to the product you start with! If you have a showline dog with excellent working qualities (and these are consistently found in the pedigree/line), breeding into the working lines will likley be a very good choice. If you start with a poorer product and want to use the working lines to 'improve' a lot, then one may not get what is desired. Most of my dogs have some german showline in them but the majority is working/old HGH/DDR lines. The outcome has been very , very good. I LOVE the qualities the old HGH dogs bring into breedings and want to carry this 'type' of dog on. I personally feel they do 'have it all'. My pups have been successful doing a varity of jobs (explosive detection, narcotic detection, SchH, obedience, herding, tracking, assistance dogs and most of all great family companions...in the RIGHT homes).

Just a thought----Being a "common sense" person---- Politics, geography, and numbers indicate to me that the Czech lines just might be the most inbred in the world---- For BETTER or WORSE?? I was just trying to remember how long ago it was that I saw my first Czech dog standing alone--- No soldiers, no machine guns, no muzzles. I can remember well when the first appeared in the magazines--- soldiers, machine guns, and muzzles. TITLES???? NEVER mentioned. Truly there are always a large number of "sides" to every story. Yes, I have DDR lines in my breeding program. No, most of my dogs have NOT been to college. I was rereading some passages in MAX VON STEPHANITZ'S book the other evening and was particuarly drawn to the chapters wherein he talked about the 2 distinct breeds-- working and show. Let the battle continue. Sometimes we ALL need use some "common sense". PJDogs

Perhaps I stand alone in my personal conviction to not mix lines. Will people do it? Yes. Does it mean we should do it? No. To each his own, and I will even admit the page listed above shows a nice looking girl, however I would question the work ability until I saw it myself. Can anyone provide a video? Very few show line dogs can do work. I am not just talking about "point" dogs either, I am talking about SAR, Personal protection, Sch, PSA, Bomb/Narcotics detection or even herding. If they could you would see more of them doing it, lord knows there are enough of them in the world to go around. What a tired subject, why dont we talk about inbreeding poodles next, we could call them Shepherdoodles. I mean aren't poodles statistically the smartest breed? I am sure they would add some quality to a show GSD that would help them (my shepherdoodle lacks courage, but he can do quadratical equations!). Seriously, where does it end? Lets just agree to disagree, I dont have to like mixing lines, you dont have to like my not liking it. Is everyone confused, I sure am. Show me a show line dog that can win the nationals, BSP, or heck even a regional event and I will listen. Until then, long live the working dog!!!

flip~ your not alone in your thinking, there are plenty outthere that feel the way you do. I used to. Now I believe there is no single right way to breed. What type that works for Joe Blow, might not work for Joe Shmo. Think about it...the majority of pet owners don't even know what their dogs breeding consists of. God help us if they started handing out working line pups, to first time pet owners! I'm such a dog person, I forget that there are so many people out there that have no clue how to handle, let alone train Pup Pup to mind his maners. I think if all the GSD's had the high high drive we like, the GSD wouldn't be as popular a breed. Some people like their couch potatoes. Me, I don't even allow a dog on the couch. My dog can't sit still unless I am still. Whenever I get up, he gets up and is right up my butt. I can't even look at him or he gets up and gets in my face. So fun trying to keep him still, with a broken leg. LOL Going on 7 yrs old and he is finally chilling out a bit, so I can deal with him inside.

OK 4 Pack, I have to eat some crow thanks to you. I never thought about it like that. Given most GSD buyers (myself included when I bought my first) dont have a clue about the breed. Can you imagine a person buying a Troll/Mink puppy. YIKES! That pup would be at a local shelter in a week. So I guess you have a point. Again, I have a show dog and he is a wonderful family dog, great house manners, well behaved, good obedience, and even does serious bitework and may very well protect my family. I still think the working lines are more reliable if and when (God forbid) my dog ever had to use whatever form of "karate" i have taught him. Same goes for Sch, or anything else. One day I think my show line is good enough to try for a BH, take him to the sch field and he acts like he forgot his OWN name! One last thing, if the GSD was a less popular breed, would that be a bad thing?? Look at what happened to the dalmation......

flip, i agree, it wouldn't be that bad if the gsd did lose it's popularity for awhile. everyone and there mother is breeding (ka-ching) as long as they have a male and a female. i have long coats. you'd be surprised how many people don't even know that they exist. the shelters are just about full. it's sad. there aren't enough homes for "sport dogs" most people only want a healthy pet that will protect them if needed.

"Given most GSD buyers (myself included when I bought my first) dont have a clue about the breed." That was me when I got my first GSD. American lines, right out of the newspaper sight unseen. He was scared of everything at first, and I spent hundreds of hours getting him out into the world until he eventually figured out that not every strange noise signalled impending doom. Oddly enough, he's turned out to be a great dog - challenges strangers at the gate, and, while gun and thunder-shy there isn't much of anything else that scares him. I did meet his father, who seemed like a quite outgoing dog, and having seen the deplorable conditions at his breeder's kennel - after I bought him, of course - I've concluded his initial problems might well have been as much environmental as anything else. He's extremely healthy at age 11.5 and he can still trot 10-15 miles on our weekly long walks, even though structurally he almost stands on his hocks and has weak pasterns. Good back and croup, though. While I'm sure he's loaded with lance of Fran-Jo like every other He's always been on the skinny side and stays right around 80 lbs. even though he is 26" at the shoulder. Right now he's decided he would like to hump my 8-month-old pup and has been bugging him non-stop for the last two days. He used to do the same thing with my late dog, who was much more powerful and dominant and could have wrecked him in five seconds, whenever the seasons changed. I never attempted to do any sort of protection work with him because I never thought he had it in him. But now I have to put him in the house when I do bite-pillow work with the little guy, because he tries to horn in and nail the pillow - so I've been letting him have some bites too once the pup is finished.

"Given most GSD buyers (myself included when I bought my first) dont have a clue about the breed." That was me when I got my first GSD. American lines, right out of the newspaper sight unseen. He was scared of everything at first, and I spent hundreds of hours getting him out into the world until he eventually figured out that not every strange noise signalled impending doom. Oddly enough, he's turned out to be a great dog - challenges strangers at the gate, and, while gun and thunder-shy there isn't much of anything else that scares him. I did meet his father, who seemed like a quite outgoing dog, and having seen the deplorable conditions at his breeder's kennel - after I bought him, of course - I've concluded his initial problems might well have been as much environmental as anything else. He's extremely healthy at age 11.5 and he can still trot 10-15 miles on our weekly long walks, even though structurally he almost stands on his hocks and has weak pasterns. Good back and croup, though. While I'm sure he's loaded with lance of Fran-Jo like every other He's always been on the skinny side and stays right around 80 lbs. even though he is 26" at the shoulder. Right now he's decided he would like to hump my 8-month-old pup and has been bugging him non-stop for the last two days. He used to do the same thing with my late dog, who was much more powerful and dominant and could have wrecked him in five seconds, whenever the seasons changed. I never attempted to do any sort of protection work with him because I never thought he had it in him. But now I have to put him in the house when I do bite-pillow work with the little guy, because he tries to horn in and nail the pillow - so I've been letting him have some bites too once the pup is finished.

Whoops. The second sentence of the third paragraph is supposed to read "While I'm sure he's loaded with Lance of Fran-Jo like every other American dog, his 4-generation pedigree shows no line-breeding."

Question for Oli: after seeing the mess above that I managed to create through my butter-fingered talents on the keyboard, maybe the new site could have "delete" and "edit" functionality?