Crating and spinning dogs? - Page 2

Excitement, super high drive, o/c tendencies, etc. all are catalysts for it. I know a lot of Malinois and a few Australian Shepherds and Border Collies who do it in addition to GSDs. There is an Aussie near my house that sits in the ditch and spins every time a car goes by. Really freaked me out the first time I saw it; it starts to chase the car and then spins like crazy. My neighbor had a BC who would do it when it got really excited; it's an outlet of sorts. In an otherwise "normal" dog, crating is the only thing I've ever seen CAUSE it. In dogs who have those tendencies, many things can trigger it. The OP's dog definitely sounds like a case of created spinning, to me, based on similar scenarios I have seen with dogs from certain breeders. I knew of a woman whose dogs all spun...all 30-some of them. Tell me that's a genetic problem?! Sad. 

I had one that developed a terrible spinning preoccupation from being kept in a 10x5 kennel, not at all a crate.  While I'm sure the confined space influences the expression in a predesposed dog, a crate isn't the only "cause" to trigger and develop the behavior.  Kennel confinement will do, given the right dog.

Daryl, Your assement is 100% correct. I have a bitch that is confined in a 1 acre dog lot that is parallel to my driveway. Everytime a car comes down the driveway she spins. She has never been crated or kenneled a day in her life. Another interesting fact, i've had other dogs in the lot with her and some of them will start to engage in the same behavior. If she's loose she will chase and bite the tires so I have to believe it has something to do  with prey drive in this particular dog anyway.

I think there are confounding variables to crating + working home = spinning.  Working homes tend to pick high energy, high drive dogs that are not easily satisfied energy wise within the confines of a 24 hour day.  My dogs/puppies are crated at night.  The first thing I do in the morning is let them out to potty and play.  Almost all of mine are chomping at the bit to get out because they know what is coming (play time) and express their excitement and pent up energy by spinning and pawing/scratching the crate.

I raised a recent puppy with crating at night and combo of outdoor 10x10 kennel and supervised house time during the day in addition to exercise and training.  Of all my dogs, she was the worse spinning/pawing puppy in the morning and she was also the highest energy puppy that I have had in a long time.

Although a hectic dog may be able to exhibit high drives while training, it's important to not confuse the two terms.  A high drive dog should ideally be able to focus it's energy more constructively, and not be taken up with OCD type behaviors when not working.  A dog that is hectic is more prone to displacement aggression, for having a less clear presence of mind or ability to focus it's drive.  If you observe hectic behavior in your young dog, it's advisable to participate in a lot of focusing exercises, prior to it becoming a strongly integrated part of their behavior repertoire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZAYEtxYjSg

i did a search just to see what a dog spinning looked like and that is what came up

Sure, Daryl- a smallish kennel is very likely to be a catalyst as well. Note I didn't say "cause" because there are dogs that are just not going to spin, regardless of the crate time- it's simply not in their make-up. 

I think some people are thinking when we talk about spinning that we mean a couple turns here and there, when anticipating something exciting. When I talk about spinning being perpetuated by excessive crating, I am talking about OCD spinning- not occasional bursts of excitement prestent in young or very high drive dogs who need to burn off some energy. There are dogs who spin relentlessly, and these are the ones that coincidentally have all been kept confined far more than I think a dog should be. I would hazard to guess that even a very genetically sound dog could develop the behavior if crated too long from early puppyhood. So many behaviors are molded in early puppyhood. 

Jenni78, you got it right again.   You do know and understand exactly what I mean. 
There is a difference between a dog that is just happy to be getting out of his crate after spending the night in it and a dog that lives most of its life in one.  I've seen dogs that spin because they are excited to go work. There is also the dog that spins, but not from excitement or anticipating his time for working.  I can understand puppies that are crate trained and are happy to finally get out.  What I am talking about is about the dog that lived probably 80% of his life in a crate probably in the dark since his crate was in a van all the time.  So it is not fair to compare his situation to ones that are done properly when crate training. That was not the situation with this dog at all.

Now that I have been paying attention to it,  you can definitely see certain tendencies of how much time some dogs spends in a crate.  Just really nice to hear all the diofferent opinoins and experiences.  

My spinner was rarely in a crate as she was actually a pretty low energy dog and totally reliable in the house but she was kind of a nutcase in the head.  I think crating or kenneling a spinner is just going to make it worse but I don't think that *causes* spinning, at least that hasn't been my experience.

My three males aren't spinners.  They are crated but do not "live in a crate", or in a kennel for that matter, they are house dogs.  One is crated at home if I'm out because he still chews stuff but the others are free in the house all day/night.  Also they are crated in the van when we're at Schutzhund and flyball but none of them spin even if they're really excited to get out.  They don't always have the best manners loading out, lol, but no spinning.  They don't spin on a leash either, like if doing aggitation work or just being tied out away from me.  I can't stand that type of spinning either.

I have 2 dogs.  Same breed, same age, same breeder, similar gene pool.  They both spend time in crates, x-pens and the yard.  One spins when he is in the crate in my car, the other doesn't.  The one that spins in the crate in the car is also the one that tends to nap in a crate with the door open.  He doesn't spin manically.  Just enough to get his leash all knotted up.

Just his way of being antsy.

My other dog tends to do what I call his tap dance when he gets antsy.  He does this quick tap tap tap tap with all four legs.  He'll do it in his crate, out side his crate, any time he gets excited.