Choking a dog to get the ball back - Page 2

thanks for that info slamduc i too was curiosu

Kyle,
Of course, I teach my dog to out on command.  I do not know of one agency that does not teach their patrol dogs to out.  If you look at the yearly certification rules the dog MUST out on command.  Correction collars are not allowed for certification and the dog must release.  It may not be as pretty as a sport dog and we do not teach the "Automatic Out" but the dog must out or it should fail certification.  

I'm not going to get into tactics or how the dog is made to release a "real bite" whether by verbal command or a lift off.  I'll say that my dog will stay on a real bite until the suspect is complaint and it is safe for me, other officers and the dog before I call the dog off.   

I am doing my yearly patrol certification tomorrow.  The aggression control will involve a call off, gun shots an apprehension and a verbal out and guard of the decoy.  On the call off, I have the choice of calling my dog back to me, downing the dog in front of the decoy or "reasonable force" the hold and bark.  My dog can do all three well.  However, I prefer the down / platz in route to the decoy.  I do not like calling my dog away from a potential threat and I also do not like the hold and bark for Police K9's.  There will be shots fired form the decoy and the dog will be sent to engage the decoy, with the last shots fired by the decoy a few yards from the dog while en route.  The decoy fights the dog then the dog is verbally "outed" from a distance.  The dog must guard the decoy and the decoy then assaults the handler and the dog automatically engages again and is outed again.  If the dog will not out from verbal commands the team fails certification. 

I hope that clears up the confusion and I would think most agencies have a similar certification process.  Things turn into a pissing contest when statements like this are made:

Not teaching the dog to out is an American LEO K9 training method. I have been told they don't teach it because they don't want the dog outing from a verbal command.

I take the spreading of misinformation about Police K9's a little personally.  I work too hard with my dog to let statements like this go unanswered.  I am learning to not take this site very seriously and am responding less and less on various threads.  However, I'd hate our international dog enthusiasts to get the wrong idea about American K9 handlers as a whole. 

FWIW,

Jim

From a puppy up,  Two Ball.

That's right I said it was an American LEO training method.  I did not say all American LEO K9 trainers only train this way.  Good for you that you take your job and position seriously.  I am more than familiar with USPCA requirements and testing. I train more than in just schutzhund circles and this is how I'm familiar with agencies that don't teach the out.  There is a lot of misinformation that is diseminated on this board and what I said is not misinformation.

Foreign police K9 trainers are aware that some USA LEO agencys don't teach the out. This was observed at a police K9 seminar.  The instructor conducting the seminar is a German Police K9 school instructor and handler.  When asking the officer why he must hang and or flank his dog to out, the officer replied, my trainer does not like to teach the dogs to out.  The German instructor found this very hard to believe and was quite puzzled.  The USA handler had another partner their from his agency that elaborated more on the reason they don't train the out.

I have no reason to make this up.  But never assume that everyone takes their job as serious as you do.  There are alot of LEO trainers that were taught a method decades ago and don't see a need to change, adapt or improvise.  Keep shootin' at the messengers and the information will stop coming.  Just the majority of European trainers that used to populate this board.  I take being told that I'm giving misinformation seriously and that is the reason I responded once again. 

Kyle

Kyle,
Who was the German K9 instructor?  Just curious was it Flinks? 

I don't do USPCA, instead we certify under NAPWDA and the VPWDA.  I may do USPCA just for the competition aspect of their certifications.  NAPWDA and VPWDA are pass fail, not point oriented.  Every agency in my state MUST certify by having their dogs out on command, every one it is not optional to certify.  All my buddies in NY certify with their dog outing on command.  I guess some agencies in the mid west do things somewhat differently.  I find it hard to believe with our litigious society that agencies do not require an out, there is simply too much liability. 

Outing a real bite on the street is different than outing for certification for many reasons.  Btw, I'm not shooting  the messenger just replying to your comments. 

Jim

 I just want to thank slamdunc and his K9 for serving and protecting!  Thank you!

Slam...with a pup do you always just use another toy or something?
I was taught to chocke the dog off so he doesn't feel like he lost the object.
ex..flirt pole.  Pup gets it and wins and to get him off of it you choke him off so he doesn't feel like he lost it.

Good grief, did someone write about choking a puppy to drop something? That is just stupid. Yes, two ball does get the job done without broken blood vessels in the eye.

Two ball, or two tug.  Or however many it takes.  Making it fun for the dog gets better results.  Not sure who would teach people to "choke out" a puppy to get an out.......

"OUT", "LOS" for my dogs means whatever is in your mouth drop! Ball, stick, kong, dead bird, baby rabbit, bitesleeve, bitesuit, mans' arm, mans' foot, mans' shoulder blade! "OUT" for the english  trained and "LOS" for the two dutch trained.