Tail chasing & E Collar - Page 2

Thanks everyone for your responses which have been most beneficial.

Jim,
They are Schutzhund trainers, one breeder/trainer highly experienced with GSD's in terms of years training who advised me to use the Ecollar on the basis that in their opinion it would break the habit faster avoiding it becoming a compulsion. One advised to use the nick as a leash correction on a NO command as the dog intitiates the thought of spinning which in this dog caused him to lunge at his tail in aggression and bite at it. A low level stim had no effect and higher levels increased aggression.

The other suggested  a NO or STOP command with a constant  stim and release when the dog stops spinning. The same occurred where the stim caused increased aggression and snapping where he caught and bit his tail and making it bleed. He did on a couple of occassions with a constant stim stop spinning to scratch his neck obviously from the stim sensation, but on release of the stim, resumed the spin immediately.

I can redirect the notion with vigilence to body language with a NO command and toy or food where the dog responds favourably at the time but didn't appear to be extinguishing the behaviour long term where it was advised that I was rewarding the behaviour causing the dog to spin to seek reward???.

I have resumed redirecting and calming on the notion to spin in the past day with success except the bite wound keeps opening up and bleeding a little whacking his tail on things although he has kept his mouth of it so far.

I could see using an e-collar if you use it to enforce behaviors like sit or down, and then give (and enforce) one of those commands before the dog really gets into the tail chasing.  The combination of e-collar with obedience commands would have to be taught first.  Then reward compliance to the obedience command using the toy.  You'd have to be EXTREMELY persistent and consistant and it might be a while before seeing a change.

 We had a dog like this once,he was a copmulsive tail chaser. I agree with Jim 100% you need to correct the behavior before it happens and reward with a high level reward.

The dog we were training was a 10 mo old GSD. I used a prong collar for the correction and since the dog had no ball drive but he was a cheese food freak we used that as his reward. After conditioning him to the collar, we would watch him closely for a clue he was about to start chasing. This dog would always turn his head slow and look at his tail first like it was sneaking up on him!  Anyway once I saw him START to look I would correct him with the collar and  reward him with a piece of cheese immmediately AFTER making him sit.

The idea was I didn't want to reward the "thinking of chasing my tail" I wanted to reward the sit.  Anyway I hope maybe this works for you. The E collar may be a bit much IMO
Good Luck 

The reason the ecollar is making it worse is because you aren't using it correctly.  Go back and read what Molly wrote.   With ecollars not only do you have to teach them first, also timing combined with level of correction is very important.   If the dog is being stimulated incorrectly, he is reacting in aggression out of fear or frustration, and it will do nothing to help the situation.   

That said, since you probably don't have enough experience with ecollars in this type of application, it's probably better if you don't use it for now, because you are doing more harm than good.

Remember, the word "no" by itself, is not an action verb.  People make the mistake of telling a young dog "no" without combining it with a command.  Like Molly said, you must also tell  him what you want, as in "sit".

Leave the leash on him.  In every instance that normally causes him to start spinning, pre-empt it with a "sit" or "down" command.  If he does it when you get ready to go for a walk, tell him "sit" or "down" and if he breaks, correct him FOR BREAKING.  This way he learns that "down" means "down" until you say otherwise.  Same thing with before eating, everything.  THEN, when he has done as you asked, you can give him your release command and let him eat, or whip out the ball or toy for reward.  This way you are rewarding him for an action he completed. 

If you are diligent you will break this habit, but you must be diligent, not just sometimes.

I did not read all the previous post, but here's my two cents

I have a female workingline gsd and had a very similiar issue.She chases her tail when she get's really anxious (for example if we are out walking in the woods and I stop to talk to another hiker she want's to keep on and the spinning begins)   I DID USE  an ecollar and the redirect method to solve or control the problem.

I use the ecollar to gain her focus from her tail(at a very low level, just enough to get her attention not correction) and then I redirect it with another action (retrieve, walk or send her running). Normally if i just nick her without redirecting she will only stop for a few seconds and then begin chasing again.

Question: Does the dog do it on leash?

 I just thought I would post an update regarding my dogs tail chasing after 4 months on from asking advice.


I removed the ECollar and reverted back to him dragging a leash and corrected him at the times he would spin, obviously leash control stopped the spinning action physically to prevent tail bites too. My wife had taught him a command "yum Yum" where he would run to her and sit for treat, he has high food drive also which the "yum Yum" command was conditioned and working in other areas of silly behaviour to regain focus and calm. I tried the "yum Yum" command during a spin where he stopped the spinning ran to me for a treat.


I worked on this system over time and the episodes of tail chasing has improved by 75%. He does it occasionally if left in high drive or excitement without a command to comply with. He can do it in bitework when ramped up after outing if leaving it too long before commanding a behaviour, sit or down etc, but he doesn't break a command to spin, it's only if he is left to contend with a state of high arousal with no handler direction for an alternative behaviour. It seems the spinning is associated with self pleasure for drive satisfaction. He will spin sometimes throwing a ball if my older GSD beats him to the ball, like he has raced down the yard in drive anticipating the ball, the ball is gone suddenly, he is ramped up with nothing to do and can sometimes spin in those circumstances but will now stop giving a command to do something else to release him for reward.


It's not fixed as yet, greatly improved and we need to watch him in high arousal states for signs he may be thinking about it and break the notion before the spinning starts. The first sign is his head starting to turn around, if you can see his eyes at the time, the eyes move to one side first, then the head, then we interrupt with a command avoids the spinning. His intent to spin has reduced dramatically, and feel confident now we will reach a good level or control and hopefully eliminate the notion.    

Well Done, Congratulations on all of your hard work with him.

Yes they always give you that signal, the head turning and eyes shooting a quick glimse behind and that is exactly when you have to react faster that him before it goes any further.

congratz. my female would chase her tail but only if we asked her to lol. it was a kid thing. but she never looks at it inless we ask her whats behind you then she will chase it like 3 times then do soemthing else its quite funny


our police department is haveing to retrain all of their dogs into useing the Ecollar because the state is makeing it a law that they all have to use them due to some unattentive handlers and such. their one dog amazing patrol dog good with his narcotics shuts down if you get near the Ecollar button and hes on the lowest setting. it does all kinds of things to different dogs.