Any info, ref: pinch collars please - Page 2

Should anyone have any aversions to using a pinch/prong collar I like this study.  Proof a pinch collar causes less damage than a choker.
http://cobankopegi.com/prong.html

Thanks for the link, GSD Fan!

I took the liberty of extracting this bit of information from that webpage:

"A Study on Prong Collars was done in Germany:
100 dogs were in the study. 50 used choke and 50 used prong.
The dogs were studied for their entire lives. As dogs died, autopsies were performed.
Of the 50 which had chokes, 48 had injuries to the neck, trachea, or back. 2 of those were determined to be genetic. The other 46 were caused by trauma.
Of the 50 which had prongs, 2 had injuries in the neck area, 1 was determined to be genetic. 1 was caused by trauma.
The numbers seem to speak for themselves.
(Information about above study taken from an Anne Marie Silverton Seminar)"

If that information is accurate, I would think we would all be relegating our choke collars to the junk drawer.
Very interesting.

SteveO

Its meant to be used for training not just to do by yourself yanking your dog.  They can be very useful if used right.  Leerburg is a pretty worthless website ran by a trainer with a bad reputation who has little accomplishements and nothing recent other than breeding a lot of dogs, i would not say go there.  The collar is not going to stay that high on any dogs neck unless you move it up every couple minutes so don't try to fit it that snug.  It can make a dog more reactive if its very tight and high on the neck.  Best thing is to get a trainer to show you how to use it but not beginnig with other dogs or the barking, begin with obedience first

To Steve, that study has never been cited.  Nobody even knows it was real.  Who did the study, what were the results, where is the paper on the study.  It's non existant.  Pinch collar can have ability to cause nerve damage, paralysis, larynx damage, and more. I use them sometimes and clearly Im not against them, I'm just pointing out this study is not cited.  Any training where you use pain and aversives has potential to damage the dog psychologically and physically.  You are using pain to supress behaviors.

 I would question where the dogs came from in that "study". Too much prove what you want to out there for me.

Quote: Lissa.....This was interesting.....What do others think about this collar..?????
Watch the video

http://leerburg.com/746.htm

You can cause problems with this collar. The dog ca choke completely out, which I am not against, but she just might be. LOL

Lets look at the basic problem here. Somehow, the halti causes the dog to just lie down. I would guess it is because her relationship with the dog is sorta fucked.

Pinch collars do not cause big problems, owners do. I would go and find a club and ask for help with training your dog, which has already been addressed, along with sorta how to put it on. I imagine after the walk, he is going to lie down and refuse to move then as well. If it is in the middle of the walk, or he starts crying, something that GSD's are famous for in the pet world, she is going to get stuck somewhere. Not really a solution.

I like positive methods to try and turn the dogs way of thinking at first. I would stop going for walks, and just take him out to do his business while I was looking for a club to train at. That way you can have a break from the pulling nonsense.

Of course, I would have you grab onto something, and then boot him in the ass. Just me, but I am not getting dragged just because he wants to act like an idiot, and do something that might get him put down. Hell, I would probably be yelling at him and booting him in the ass. When he decided to stop pulling, maybe a pat on the head. However, I have been doing this a long time, and the OP has not. When it comes to this stuff, I am not tolerant at all. I do try to give people things to think about.

I have just watched the Leerburg video with the so called dominant dog collar.  I don't claim to be an expert in reading dog behaviour but I do know that when a dog licks its lips, it is a sign that it is very uncomfortable.  That is why  you often get a photo of a dog licking it's lips because the camera is pointing directly in its direction and a dog doesn't like direct eye contact.

How many times did that dog lick its lips when that thing was being put around its neck.  The poor thing, what did they do to it with it on to make it feel so uncomfortable.  It must be like having a cheese wire around your neck.

I have three two year old GSDs, two brothers and their sister, which have been with me since they were born.  Bringing up and having three litter mates and training them individually is incredibly hard work.  They all walk to heel on a normal lead and collar and that has been achieved by putting in the time and effort and giving them lots of positive reinforcement.

Anyone who uses prong collars or anything else that inflicts pain or discomfort with a short term solution to behavioural problems need to get off their arses and spend time training their dogs with a view to a long term objective and with the aim of forming a positive bond with their dogs.  Anyone who uses a prong collar or a cheese wire should be dragged around with one around their neck on to see how it feels. 

This is from someone who managed to obtain a High-Good pass in a BH exam with one of the aforesaid puppies when it had just turned 15 months old.

I would never deliberately inflict any pain or discomfort on any of my dogs ever.

Louise Ball

                            Louise..I just watched a video on dog body language....I was thinking the exact same thing about the licking behavior while watching the Leerburg video...glad you mentioned it...

                         *** So, how do you get your dogs to'walk to heel" without a correction collar??? .....What is the technique you use????....          
                                                                                                                  Ruger1

I really am no expert but I started training my pups to walk to heel at an early age with the use of treats so that they associated being near me with a pleasurable experience.  When they were young, this was easy to achieve.  Then when I started to take them out individually, I used a long training lead and if they pulled out, I released the lead so that they went ahead and then turned abruptly the other way which makes them realise that they aren't in charge.   I try and do lead walking when I can with them indivudally by walking into town where there are loads of distractions.  The only time they pull is if we go past the pet shop or the bank because they know that I normally go in there. GSD's are just so intelligent....

Louise Ball

Lissa:  Pinch collars are great tools, but you do need to get with someone who can show you how to fit it and use it properly.  The suggestion to find a local club is a good one, the best advise I think you could follow at this point. 

Getting back to the original post, you need to be clear that this is a training issue and NOT an issue of you having the means to physically control you dog i.e. the pinch is an excellent tool when used ethically and correctly to deal to fix a problem and NOT treat the symptoms.

I am a soft trainer, but a dog acting like this could become a life or death issue for either of you, it cannot behave like this near the roads, its not fair on others (people or dogs) and if you say stop the dog must bloody stop, or lie down etc.

Thankfully you have come to this site to get some advice, if you care to post the region you live in we could recommend some good trainers to help get you started.

Ronin

 Quote:  I don't claim to be an expert in reading dog behaviour but I do know that when a dog licks its lips, it is a sign that it is very uncomfortable.

According to who ? I hear people saying this, but I have a dog that is uncomfortable at awfully weird times then.