Breed Average? - Page 2

Hello Videx, thank you so much for this information i am so grateful. Would it be possible to explain as i was lead to believe, by my breeder, that that average, only meant average so anything above or below it was "normal". She insisted to me that 26 was ok to breed from if i put my girlie to a dog that had a low hip score. I am soooo lost. Do you think 26 is really bad when the highest score is so far away at 106?

A precise quote from the BVA/KC link above:

BRITISH VETERINARY ASSOCIATION/KENNEL CLUB HIP DYSPLASIA SCHEME - Breed Mean Scores at 01/11/2009

Introduction: These breed mean scores should be read in conjunction with the current BVA/KC HD scheme procedure notes.

Breeders wishing to reduce the risk of hip dysplasia should choose stock with scores WELL BELOW the breed mean scores (BMS)

Hi Doris

The fact is, a GOOD breeder will not deviate from the guide of breeding WELL BELOW the average, which as far as I am aware is still 19 and not 20 as stated. If the German system was adopted the dog would not pass a breed survey, so would be classified 'not suitable for breeding'. However, there are some breeders that do breed from higher scores, but it is very bad practice and does nothing to help maintain the integrity of the BVA scheme and the ultimately the health of the breed.

There is never a good reason for breeding a dog with scores above the BMS, ignorance of the current health requirements is not an acceptable reason as any good breeder should be fully up to speed with any current health requirements in their breed. So one would have to question why anyone would choose to breed or recommend to someone like yourself, to breed outside of the desired range.
 
So no, 26 is NOT OK to breed from. As Margaret N-J said, even some low hip scores shouldn't be bred from in certain cases. 26 is not a terrible score but it does not fall within the acceptable range for breeding - period.

There are no guarantees that only low scores will produce no dysplastic pups, but if breeders follow the recommendations it reduces the risk, and one would hope that eventually, over time lessen the incidence of HD in the breed. Personally I think that the KC should ban registration of litters from parents that do not have acceptable hip scores.

is there any particular reason that you want to breed your girl?

I might get flamed for saying this but I feel that people ( just some ) think that breeding your dog is a good idea as they can make quick money or make their purchase price back from the mother dog. I have bred pugs for the better part of 22 years and in my opinion it is costly ( if done right ), time consuming, and can be very heart breaking at times. I have always felt that if you bought your girl dog as a pet/companion and not to show or trial with then leave well enough alone and have her spayed. Whelping pups is dangerous business and can have a very bad outcome to the non informed. I am new the GSD breed so I am learning alot and it seems that really good pups are easy to come by as there are some fantastic breeders out there but knowing what I know now I dont think that I would breed my girl. My girl has a fabulous pedigree but that alone isnt enough to warrant me to add to an already over population issue that I see when I work with my local GSD and pug rescue. This is strictly my opinion at 6am and 1 cup of coffee so I apologize if it comes out wrong ........... lol! I would just enjoy your girl for what she is and leave the pups to the pros .......... :D

Cath

Thank you for all this information, i am so pleased that you have helped me, but it was my breeder who has kept onto me to go down this path. My girl has a fabulous personality and is a good speciman and i didn't really want to use the stud dog of hers as i felt that she was pushing me a bit.
There is a lot to learn and i have been on your site Videx and it has blown me away.
What about those who just put Pippa to  Boris down the road and they seem to get away with it, but i have done everything right and now i am being punished. So could you Videx tell me if you check the pedigree of bitch's that come to your stud dogs and how far would you go back on it as my pedigree has good hip scores?
I hope this question is not too forward, but if i presented my bitch's pedigree to you wouldn't you see that her stock is good and that being put to one of your super dogs would/could enhance the breed.
It's not as though she has a score far past the 19. I'm almost certain that i won't breed from her, but i have lots a niggly questions that won't go away. I blame the kennel club for having duel standards.

Doris.

Think you are right Cath, :)

 I no longer enter into discussion on this forum.

Doris.the advice yu have been given on here has been right.do yu realise wot is involved in breeding and raising a litter.as the pug breeder (cath)has said ,she,s new to GSDS and has a lot to learn and altho.she,s bred pugs so wont be breeding from her shepherd(good on ya Cath).I too have a good specimen female gsd here in my home.she has many a 1st placing at championship shows,2 challenge certificates(3 c.c. required to be a champion)and has had many best of breeds/best puppy in breed at open show level,but i havent bred from her.the reason has been for one thing she isnt hip/elbow scored(i get the x rays done shortly before the season due when i wish to mate)but because of housing problems i felt that i wasnt in a position to fully facilitate the correct enviroment for the raising/correct rearing of puppies.the breeder of your bitch seems to me wants a pup back from your bitch to continue her lines.maybe yu can put the sire and the dams name on here to see if we know the lines and maybe comment but be prepared is all i can say as yu may not like wot is said.videxs site is very educational and i take note of his comment to yu.love your girl as your pet.Carole S.