Sieger Show Protection - Page 2

you know folks -- i think i really am missing something --- this is why i have not cared about shjow or this or that -- let me walk through this -- you have Sch 1 , 2, 3 dogs yes -- they have trialed and titled .. am i right ?? ok -- you want to flash the dog for structure and looks / show it --- SO WHY then all these dogs fail; / insufficiient / not pronoiunced in bite work ?? what a gaff if i ever did see one -- also the dog has a title in protection -- then why if the dog has proven itself ... and i mean tuely proven itself ... must it prove itself again ?? if the first result id tru and honest and tyhe dog can protect -- that should suffice -- again IMO what a gaff -- also -- goodness -- you Sch folks worry about distance -- what is the big deal hjere -- if a good protection wants to bite / is trained well / you have biult confidence -- if your dog will not go 50 yards plus or minus -- go home and don't even say your dog does prtection work -- i used to love the show ring / schutzhund -- but the more i excelled the more hypocrisy and contradictions i see -- and the copurage test -- please anybody that does protecyion cab hardly say that is a courage tesat -- goodness we work yongs pups withj stck hit and form an entry into the helper -- there is little or any pressure in that courage test in Sch .. and these dogs at conformation shows lack in the protection routine --pleae people --no wonder the GSD is being outshined by the malinois -- not meaning to be indignant or to offend -- just asking some to really really look at things throiugh a different looking glass now

Asking why these dogs should have a problem with the protection test is a rhetorical question.

dogs are not machines... they are allowed, like humans to have "bad days" and this is not "making an excuse" its just plain old reality. i am my own worse critique and i have high expectations of my dogs...however, i also am realistic to the fact that "shyt happens" i am going to guess that everyone that takes a dog in for bitework in germany or at any other sieger show has an idea what their dogs are capable of because THOUSANDS of people are watching...whose to say that an animal doesnt think "i dont feel like conforming today on the fuss, so i wont" this is a part of "character" (not excusing fleeing off a field etc... just using OB as part of my scenario) sometimes people who "show" might let their "egos" get in the way and show a dog that simply is not "ready" or is not "feeling right" dogs get sick, dogs are stressed.. the intense training before a Sieger show... how many dogs bloat around Sieger show time? alot... we humans cause this...imo some of the dogs that failed.. well.. i have heard there is some "soft" ness in them.. well one inparticular.. and so now it caught up to him.... every single person that takes a dog on the field, working line, show line, takes a risk that their dog may "humble them" and i learned that from a working line club... i am fortunate.. i have this awesome female out of my Dux daughter and Ronaldo that the female has been taking stick hits since 12 weeks old...yes... 12 weeks old.. baby stick hits but i think now at 7 months she can handle being beat this little showline girl "has it" quoted by a Mal trainer who specializes in "french ring" he has said "you get one of them out of 100 puppies... dont expect to get another" lol one day she pull some shyt as she has an attitude too.. as she is VERY confident... she may humble me one day too, but i will never be unsure of her confidence and capabiitiy if she continues the character she has now... yeah.. i hear ya Alpha tho because there are some dogs you go "how the heck did they get where they are" but i have seen first hand a situation where a very tough strong male had been screwed around with by a helper and then the dog was confused whether to engage cuz the helper was jamming him at practice right before his time in.. wasnt being a whimp or unclear in the head.. he was basically sucker punched and had i owned the dog i may have punched the helper in the face after the show.. but didnt matter because a time after.. in the mud and rain... proved who he was all along and didnt let go had folks judged the dog on what the idiot did to him prior.. would have been their loss... so for what its worth.. just my humble opinion :) oh.. and as for Mals... when i go to training, i do love to watch the Mals work in french ring.... but have no desire what so ever to own one... these dogs cannot live in the house lol

alphapup, as for "flashing the dog for structure and looks" that is not at all the point of a national show. While there is considerable pride and prestige attached to breeding, owning, or handling a dog that receives a top rating and rank, as well as a buck ( or two) to be made with a high profile stud dog, the central purpose of the national show is to select, recognize, and showcase for the breeding and interested public, the most prominent and promising breeding animals by the most knowledgeable judges of canine strengths and weaknesses that we have. This is a service to us all as breeders as well as enthusiasts of a great breed that continues to improve commensurate with the dedication and vision of its collective devotees. Unfortunately there is human nature to consider, and just as the AKC crowd has ignored all good sense as well as working ability, temperament, and functional structure to explore their own misguided tangent, there are certainly those who simply are more inclined toward a particular aspect of GSD culture than to others. It is incumbent upon the officers and advisory members of the SV and other like minded organizations to observe and react to imbalances that develop in the development of our breed. Bear in mind that while many breeds have sought excellence through extreme specialization, it is ultimately what limits them. In contrast the GSD as conceived in von Stephanitz's standard is a creature that strives for excellence in all qualities without sacrificeing versatility for extremism. This is the one quality that sets the GSD apart from all other breeds. There are hundreds of " one trick ponies". There is only one dog that is equally at home with small children as with a flock of sheep or in military service, assisting the blind or disabled or apprehending violent felons. Only one dog has both the endurance to run circles around a flock of sheep day in and day out as well as the gentleness and patience to live and function among us as members of our families. It is for these reasons that those in positions of authority within the breed organizations best serve the preservation and further improvement of our breed by maintaining pressure to keep standards as high as possible in all aspects of GSD culture without reaching a critical pressure at which participants find it untennable and simply refuse to participate. Great progress has been made in health and structure. Understanding and application of genetic concepts is light rears ahead of where it was a century ago. If we can just do what we know is right in the face of adversity, perhaps the day will be soon that police departments and guide dog schools, shepherds and search and rescue operations can all draw their working dogs from the very beautiful, edurance built, geneticly prepotent lines that have been carefully developed over the last 108 years. Make no compromise!

dawnmarie, Good comments, and good luck with that excellent little bitch. I strongly believe that a large part of the difference between dogs that are seen as serious competitors and those that are laughed off by the working crowd as "soft beauty dogs" is in the training. Showing dogs can be hectic and titling is often something of a pesky formality. Friends have commented that one dog or another left the country without a BH and come back in 8 months with a SchIII. I have known, handled, and taken bites from a number of very hard, focused, and clean working dogs that just happened to come from show lines and happened to have high V ratings themselves. I have also seen a number of highly touted competition dogs crash and burn when trial conditions were different than those to which they were accustomed. Best Wishes, jdh

Ajay- I know that you know: you CAN have both. Your first male was beautiful, God bless him. Do you remember my show females, Angel (a Shanto's Xano daughter Gary Park used to work from high on a bench where sheld jump up and hang by her teeth) and my V5 (USA SS Marysville, WA) Tabsi Roten Matter? ( Visum x Mark Haus Beck daughter) Long-time Leistunglinie fan that I am and have been for some 20 yrs., I wouldn't have thrown either one out of bed for eating dog biscuits on the sheets! :-0 Messler laid a line down in the [protection field] sand in at the BSZS in '97 when 30% of the females failed. I'm surprised he got out of Nurmberg alive. They (the show dog mafia) soon voted him out, and things went back to business as usual for awhile. Hopefully this year will be another long-overdue benchmark. I hope the officials responsible have their life insurance premiums paid to date. LOL -Just my $ .02 worth... Shelley Strohl (formerly Roecker)

Didn't think Quantum Arminius was going this year. Is he there?

hi chris, any news regarding the females?I am interested in Zaskia's protection.Did she pass or fail??

hi folks -- not intending to be negative -- but when i read the post .. i can't but help relate to how the GSD had been as a breed let down =-- to many dogs getting titles the really aren't deserved just to get into the show -- to many dogs ,and i realize dogs have bad days .. a great point .. , but the foolihness if a pdg wothry of a tilte and worked / proven itself to gwet ther .. havin to prove itself again -- listen .. a title is a title ... should not have to prove itself again -- aples are apples and oranges oranges -- a tilte trial is as such .. a show is a show -- the foolishness involved hewre -- secondly -- some of you people think a show is to profile dogs -- bless you for that outlook -- but the truth and reality.. don't be so niave --- lets be honest -- it is not for the dog and not merely for that -- and i challenge you all --- all of you -- if that be the cause -- do away with all show titles and placements - let the dogs go on the field and present -- no polotics .. nohuman motivation .. believe me the titled dogs that present well -- they will studed or bred to --

Dear Alpha-pup, Sure. Great idea. Just think of all the interesting new breeds we'd have. On second thought, lets just take a little stroll through the local shelter. Where better to observe first hand Darwin's theory of the strongest examples of a species having the best chance of surviving to reproduce? (at least till the euthanol is administered) :-O I hope I am just misunderstanding what you MEANT to say in your post... Shelley ...and I thought I was the "queen" of the run-on sentence! I believe I may have been de-throned!