Square backs better? - Page 2

Preston where are these dogs with poor angles that tire out quickly. I have two dogs that fit that description. both of them will work as long and as hard as anyone could ask and can easly make all the jumps in sch and french ring. my one dog is a malinois (a very ugly one) and i would put him up against any so called correct "FCI standard" gsd any day of the week in a working test. I would do the same with with my "G" rated KKL2 female gsd.I don't know if these idiots who are performing these hybrid experiments are right or wrong. I do know that there are a lot of problems with the gsd and if these people are out to fix these problems and save the world then great for them. It maybe time breeders start to entertain some of these wild ideas. maybe take a page out of the malinois and dutch shepards breeding programs. after all the malinois and dutch shepards don't have these problems. look just ask your self this, if you were the head coach to a football team how would you select your players. would you select players that looked like football players or would you select players that can play. maybe that is a bad example,but the point is form follows function. dogs shouldn't have to look a certain way but they should have to act and be a certain way. I don't think Raiser is to far off. maybe he is right on the money.

workingdawg, here is my take on your comments. I see Herr Riser as an immature man reacting badly to not getting his own way. He strikes out publicly and throws tantrums by attacking the showline GSDs. He gets public attention because he is a public figure based on his well developed training methods and success internationally. If he likes malinois and is not committed to the GSD as a breed, he can go for it any time. If you like GSDs who are bred away from the FCI standard that is okay, but don't call them correct or pleasing to the eye. Be informed that there are fantastic working line dogs that are show rated too, which move great, look great, and work great (why not breed to these fabulous cross-over dogs?) The hardest GSD I ever had was from working lines (Larry Filo's Steinig Tal Kennels) out of a V-rated in show and multiple V in Sch and IPO III and multiple high placing and SV profung winner). He had moderate angles and could move like the wind with minimal effort all day long. He was very agile and could jump and move without transmitting much shock to his body due to the ideal functioning of his angles at both ends and heavy ligamentation which absorbed the shock optimally. He could jump a 6 foot fence in a flash if he wanted to. Because his movement was proper, being dynamic, coordinated, and effortless, he covered a great deal of ground with the minimal number of steps, smoothly and effortlessly all day long. He was not sickle hocked or over angulated in the rear and had small rear hocks and great muscle mass in the rear leags. If you see this correct, floating movement once you will never forget it. It is poetry in motion, like a well oiled machine and it only occurs if the dog is well structured. Why wouldn't any person who loves the GSD breed want such a GSD that has normal correct temperament, allowing it to move effortlessly like a well oiled machine, ideal structure and is pleasing to the eye? Those I have known personally who keep preaching ideas somewhat similar to what you appear to have stated above usually adopted such a stance because either: 1) they didn't know about what a correctly structured GSD is according to the FCI standard or why the standard even exists functionally, and when were informed were too stubborn and closed minded to learn; they don't care about what their dogs look like and didn't know eye-pleasing from un-eye-pleasing; they were stubbornly overcommitted to rationalizing the line of action with their dogs that they had assumed; or they just didn't have any access to the "total GSDs" or V-rated in shows cross-over profung dogs and didn't know about the availability of these dogs to use for breeding to raise their conformation to the standard over successive litters (which takes time and commitment); or they had gained committed membership in a "working dog" subcultural system and were deeply committed to attaining status in that system (no matter what the dogs looked like-the ends justified the means only and the ends were winning or at least placing high in the profung or sch trials). I am not saying any of these apply to you and you may have you own view. This is my opinion for what it is worth with 40 years studying the GSD.

Yes the Olderhill is a South African Kennel. They are FCI and by no means take any regard for the SV or any rulings. Their dogs are severely in bred. They put brother to sister and fathers back to daughters.Have terrible nerve problems and most vet's will tell you it is very rare for them to ever pass their hips. They have hundreds of dogs on their property which is always full of parvo etc. And they twist the words of people likwe Reiser to support their causes.They sell tons of puppies and live off the dogs. None of the breeding stock has any type of temperament test done. I doubt they even leave the property! Pure puppy farmers that is all!

Well I think that "large" gsds,... are way out of gsd standards ( they are too big, too havy ...) and way out of what mr. Max Emil Frede rich von Stephanitz wanted. I my opinion this dogs are seperate breed. About health of this dogs, I know just what I have read on Internet. That's all I know and what I have read about them. Some of them look nice but I personally don't have Interst in this kind of dogs. FOR ME the ideal gsd is dog (male) whitch comes from top working lines, with not more than 65 cm hight, 35kg, not too long, good health, clear elbows, clear hips (a1)-with correct angulation, square back, very intense drives, stable character, and are willing for work.

Interestingly enough, today a litter was posted on this web site anouncing puppies sired by Ellex vom Salztalblick (I think he was the Buddesieger Profung Winner for 2006 ?)He is one of the best temperamented, nicest looking, most correctly built working dogs there has ever been. He is very close to the standard with large masculine head, deep chest, short iron back, proper proportions, good angulations at both ends and good croup. This dog is a very worthy dog and is worth his weight in gold. I hope those who want the "total German Shepherd" make use of him, as this is a rare opportunity.

where is Ellex standing at stud?

eichenluft, I don't know where Ellex is standing at stud. Probably W. Germany. Why not contact the folks advertising a litter out of him yesterday and today on this web site. They show a bad photo of him on their web site. The photo of him on this web site does him justice. Ellex's proportions, male type, angles, and dry strong ligementation make him an extremely valuable animal for breeding.