Question of ethic - Page 2

If you are in the USA and are registering with the AKC, it can be done online. The owner of the female is the breeder unless she was leased, lent, borrowed etc. Then you can not do it online. From what you have wrote, you are the breeder, not him. So, if he wont let you register them as the breeder, offer him the pups as unregistered pets without paperwork. After all, they are his, he wont "sign" the paperwork, his loss, being their his pups, hope he enjoys his unregistered pet pups. Either way give them to him and be done dealing with him as you have nothing to lose either way. Martin

I don't think we are getting the whole story here, once again. Sorry, but all these complications are just not normal. According to what you are telling he was promised 2 pups, not the ownership of the dam at any time. I would not sign over an adult brood bitch to anyone either, nor should anyone be expected to do that. Very simple. If what you are writing is indeed the extent of things, then tell him he is getting the pups and with that your obligations to him are settled. If he is not signing the registration he is only shooting himself in the foot because then he cannot register his own pups. Sounds kind of stupid, who would do that? Again, probably just part of the story we have here. Why even worry if the pups are not yours to keep, he is getting them and he is the one keeping the pups from getting registered? Then it is his problem. Once he has the pups he will probably go with what he has.

DH thanks so much I am going to do exactly what you said. I am giving him both pups that is not a problem my hole problem is the regestration of their mother. I know I am pig headed but I don't want him put as her owner. I work for my dogs and do not apriciate him getting all the credit for both the pups and the mother. I am not regestering with the AKC so the AKC rules do not aply to me. I will let you know what happens. Also another thing the pups are now 3 weeks and he wants to take them next week!! cause I aparently can't feed them four times a day!! This remark made me mad since I have vowed to not let any dog out of my kennel without permenent identification. Would you guys agree also isn't 4 weeks way to young I neve have given a pup away befor it has been 7 weeks old. Jessica

J F U, you register the pups in your name when they are born, and that is it,you and you alone is the breeder.the pups can go anywhere in the world and you will always be the beeder.As for taking the babies away from the mother at this stage is unbelivable,and this guy should be reported to animal welfare.

Jessica, He wants the puppies now, because he sees how things are progressing and wonders if he'll ever get them. You said before that "he's mildly furious with me." There's NO salvaging this relationship. As soon as he gets his hands on those pups, he's through with you. He realizes now you're too ambitious for his needs---remember, he wouldn't take the female back, (5 times), and said he just wanted you to keep her and have litters. (This is probably where I would wonder about D.H.'s remark "I don't think we are getting the whole story here, once again.") Anyway, you're stuck giving him the two puppies--you gave your word. That wasn't the brightest move, because he didn't deserve the female pup. He had his chance if he was money hungry to sell the female when you offered her to him. Just tell him the puppies will be available when YOU think it's the appropriate time. If he gets angry, tell him to take a flying leap...., later--give him the pups. I'm sure he'll then do what he should have initially. Jess, you probably allowed him to believe, in all your eagerness to learn, that he could take advantage. The result for you--guilt and a headache. The result for him---an extra puppy and a headache. I'd just pay a stud fee in the future, if I were you. Good luck.

Thanks for your replies. I am going to register them in my name. If he gets mad or tries anything stupid I might just consider not giving him the second pup. I said I would give him the second pup or money from the sale of that pup and he said we shall see. He wasn't sure he even wantted the pup till he sall what she looks like very nice female with great color and everything a female that will probably win shows! well the hole story with the adult dog is that he gave her to me when she was 3 months old she had a skin condition and I had to treat her for the next 3 months till she recoverd. Befor I even ever took the female I told him clearly I wantted a female for show and Sch. The female was skiddish and still she has a powerful bite on the sleve but she turend out to be not good for show she is just not a good looking dog she doesn't even move well. So I said I did not want to invest in her and he should take her back he said no. I let it be and tried again a lot of times and he always got mad at me and told me that I wantted the dog then I should keep her. Finally I told him if he didn;t take her I was giving her away he said fine. I gave her away to a great place and she is thriving there now but I gave her away without any or ever saying that I want a litter from her. So I cannt go and say people I want a litter. I let him bully me around and he thinks he can but I have had it. I being the new one in the GSD world here I guess wasn;t careful enough. I have learnd but I am still mad about him saying that he wants the pups next week I think that is crazy. Jessica

I would have told him to take a flying leap, a long time ago. Sounds to me like he deserves nothing at all. I would be very concerned about the care he will give the puppies, and the homes he sells them to - will he care enough about them to make sure they go to good homes? I doubt. For me, the puppies are the main priority - I would break my word if it were to protect the puppies (and give him money for their sale instead of the actual puppies) if I were worried about their future wellbeing. molly

Does your kennel club not have rules about when pups are placed? All this should be non-issues. If your club requires that pups need to be tattooed, which I am sure they do since you are FCI associated, then do what you have to do. Why are you even listening to him? Give him a date, if he shows up before call the cops or whatever. Then hand over the pups as promised, at the appropriate time. 4 weeks is NOT an appropriate time. They are not even weaned by then. If you do not give him the second pup as promised you have to deal with the aftermath. Your choice. No one here can advise you on this or help. Its the bed you made for yourself. All this should not be the only reason why you are in kahootz the way you are. He should know the club rules. If he is pressuring you, then he is doing it because he can. So stop letting him pressure you. Do what you would normally do with a litter and if he does not like it then he needs to deal with it. All non-issues. Same as with the registration. Either he needs to sign something or he does not. First you cannot register the litter without his signature, now you can. I am not aware that in any FCI country the stud dog owner needs to sign a litter application. You usually get a stud certificate which should have been issued at time of breeding. After that nothing is required by the stud owner. As I said, not getting the whole story. Sounds like the story is spinning more around the issue of the dam. Your dog, end of story for him. If that means litter is registered in your name, also end of story for him. Pups are leaving your home at 7 weeks and not earlier, also end of story for him.

Jess, Are you at all concerned for the welfare of the puppies if you hand them over to him? If so, just hand him a stud fee and be done with it. He's never going to be happy with whatever you decide, so try and do what's best for the pups. When you confront him, it won't be pleasant--apparently, he's used to getting his own way. Just make sure the decison you make is one that you're comfortable with--not one you felt forced into. Again, good luck.

This guy sounds like a jackass, after that experience with co-ownership I wouldn't have ever used one of his males for a stud, there's plenty of great dogs out there. After this issue is over, cut your ties and be done with him!