GSD Agresssion - Page 2

Ricky, you have a 5 1/2 month old puppy. I'm not sure you are explaining the issue exactly. Is the dog just nipping at your youngest child because the child is afraid of the dog? Is the dog trying to play and is a puppy who us teething and picking your youngest as his chew toy? Puppies teeth and nip, that is what GSD puppies do. I would analyze the behavior and you need to determine whether it is aggression, insecurity or just being a puppy. It is quite possible the dog views your youngest son as a littermate and treats him accordingly. I would also talk with your son and help him to get over his fear of the dog. I would probably get your son involved in the care of the dog, especially feeding the dog.

Let's back up a hundred yards here before anyone starts telling anyone else that they need to 'get rid' of this 6 month old puppy...

Ricky, as I understand it, you've only had the dog about a month--is that correct? Meaning someone else was raising him from the time he left his mother at about 8 weeks old, until he joined your household...is that also correct?  If you haven't had him since he was a baby puppy, did you get him directly from the breeder?  How many homes has he been in before he came to you?

What, if any, type of training did the dog have before you obtained him?  Who did this training?

When you say 'youngest' son, exactly what age is this child?  What are the ages of the other children in the household?  Were there children in the home he was in before you got him, and if so, how many and how old were they?

I do have to echo the question GSDLoyalty asked before:  If your youngest son has a fear of dogs, why on earth would you bring an adolescent large-breed dog into the household?  I could understand perhaps trying to work him through it by getting an 8 week old puppy in a small to medium-sized breed, but a 'teenage' male GSD wouldn't be the first choice of dog that would come to mind to help reverse a fear of dogs...

When he's loose in the house, does the dog actively go looking for the youngest son, or are their encounters strictly by chance the way most family interactions tend to be? 

Can you describe EXACTLY what takes place between the dog and your youngest son? [Example:  "Asko was laying down and relaxing in the kitchen where you, Ricky, were seated at the table reading the newspaper. Youngest son enters kitchen, and Asko immediately gets to his feet, rapidly approaches youngest son, and stands in front of the son; son stopped moving as soon as Asko got to his feet, and is standing completely motionless. Asko barks and snaps his teeth at youngest son; Asko does not have his hackles up, his ears are back and flattened against his head, and his tail is held high and stiff."]

It's extremely hard for anyone to give training advice to someone else without being able to see the dog and the people involved--what I'd consider to be an adolescent dog being pushy might be somebody else's idea of an aggressive dog, for example, and you wouldn't handle one problem the same way you would the other one...but if you can provide more specific, hard data, it's more likely that an impression can be formed as to whether your theory is correct or not.

All good responses. But a few questions for me; By reading your posts, (every one "adds" more to the situation? Pup is 6 mos? You only have had him one month? And your experience with Shepherds is minimal due to your son having a kennel of English Bulldogs? Now, maybe there were some typos in there I'm not sure.

One, if you ever have some free time since joining the PDB read or reread some of the past threads concerning the "pet" dog attacking/maiming/killing a child or family member. I'm not being mean but when I'm reading the thread I'm trying to understand a few things. Safety is PARAMOUNT! First to all family members then to the public. 

Next, without video of what is happening then I ask myself; For those of us that have GSDs (and possibly other breeds?) We know how 5/6 month old puppies are. How they play, the "focus" on the playmate, the "intensity" play of a puppy with a lot of energy and so on........ ? Nipping, rough housing and the likes. When you say "SNAPPING" are you calling it right? And IF, and only IF, you honestly believe you are. How did it start? Has it been going on for a month? From day one? And if yes to any or all of those questions then WHY? You admitted very little experience. You have admitted your youngest is scared? afraid? Or intimidated by dogs why would you put him in that situation? Remember (if you were ever) when you were afraid of something as a kid and it could've been ridiculous, even stupid? But that didn't matter. You were still very much afraid! And now you are contributing to make that happen for your youngest son. In his house, every moment of every day the dog is around.

On the flipside; If the pup is just exhibiting energy/rough housing then everything depends on you to control/curb it.

Also, when you say "Personal Protection"? For whom? From what? And when you say Protection do you really understand what that entails? Because if in reality that is what the dog becomes have you thought of the scenario of your youngest being home alone with the dog and someone or multiple individuals attempt to enter your dwelling or commit a crime, who will command the dog, who will control the situation? The outcome? The son is afraid of the dog that is showing dominance/control or intimidation over him.

If you are calling the situation as you are seeing it and you're right. I don't think you have looked at the "BIG" picture or of (possible) future liabilities. But as one stated above: Family first! 

I feel bad for everyone concerned including your P U P P Y.  He's only been with you for a month, so you should be introducing him slowly to your family, especially the children.  I believe you're headed down the wrong road with all concerned.  You are creating a bad situation between your puppy & son.  You son is panicked which arouses the puppy so you correct him causing who-knows-what dynamic.  Both your son & your puppy now do not act normally.

My advice:

1. don't let your puppy free in the house. 
2. Crate your puppy when YOU cannot directly supervise him.
3. Reassure your son that the puppy can't chase him because the puppy is on leash.  Your son should calm down after you reassure him.
4. Introduce your puppy to training in a calm, controlled atmosphere.
5. Have treats & have everyone in the family walk by while your holding puppy on leash & either drop the treat (not throw it) or give it to the puppy while talking softly to him.  This will reassure your pup & calm him down & reassure him.
6. If your son is still unsure, let him watch how the adults feed & talk to the puppy.
7. continue reward-based training which will ease tensions

When you correct the puppy in the vicinity of your son who is panicked, you're indicating to the puppy that bad things happen around the child. 

OK, folks, I'm not going into detail, but you all need to know that 'son' does not always = 'child of minor age'.  In this instance, the youngest son is an adult, and the pup is actually great with minor children.  So no worrying necessary.

Ricky, for some reason I'm unable to send a PM response to you; please click on my user name here, and contact me @ my email address shown on my User Info page. Thanks!

hexe,

i dropped you a PM, but no replies, i didn't see any email add of yours, if you could drop me an emai at rickycifra@gis.ae thanks a lot.

Yank the dog the wrong way and watch the aggression escalate towards the boy.  Sharp corrections can escalate agression, we use it in training sometimes.   If it were my dog, (of course it would not be, because I am sure there were signs WAAAAY earlier that were not addressed)  Assuming the behavior is aggression and not play/prey I would have already rolled that dog and held him there until he gave in, something you probably won't be ABLE to do in a few months.  You have to correct this dog every time he gives even the wrong look at this child, you can tell by the body language if the dog is wanting to act out and correct it then and there every time.  Make sure you are feeding the child before the dog and for God's Sake DO NOT EVER leave the child unsupervised or near enough for the dog to get a bite in.  I like civil dogs, I want my dogs titled but when it comes to the safety of  a baby, who cares about hurting his drive????  

If it is just play/prey substitution of proper prey items and not allowing the child to scream or run or even draw back (kids love to go forward and then draw back and that triggers young dogs to bark or move forward) will help.

Also why is this dog doing it....poor nerves or something else?  If you know if it is a dominance thing, a poor nerved dog (they are the ones that bark a lot, show hackles, etc) or prey behavior (wanting to chase and bite something that runs away) would help to determine how to stop it.

Don't do anything, though, that will break the trust of the dog.  

Everything GSDpartisan said is great advice.    And I just edited this after reading everyone's post....All questions and advice from Slamdunc and Hexe are right on.  What do you mean exactly and how old is the "child"? 

If my strong nerved dog ever reacts oddly to one particular adult I would pay a whole lot of attention.  Maybe it is as simple as the "child's" fear is making him act like a supicious person with nefarious intent and raises the suspicion of the dog due to the childs movements?

hunger4justice, I dont think this is a child. I dont know who exactly this is but its no child. I dont think weve heard the whole story yet.

hunger4justice and GSDloyaty

We had the dog for only a month and we took him direct from a local breeder in manila, and since then he didn't show any signs of aggression to any of us except to my youngest son who is 19 years old, my daughter who is 24 doesn't like large breed dogs too much has no issues our dog walks her at our gate everytime she's living the house, my second son aged 21 and his wife at 18 is very close to the dog and no issues with them they breed english bulldogs and decided to add a GSD as somebody that can be trusted to guard the house and as a companion as well, i have a saying that it;s better to own a dog rather than having a gun, since the security in our country is not fairly good. as per my grand daughter who is 1 year and 8 months old, we had no issues they are playmates and good buddies already they love to play all the time inside and outside our house, i noticed that everytime they are both playing outside when a stranger approched our gate asko stands between the stranger and my grand daghter and asko barks at the stranger, that was then we decide to have asko trained for obedience and family protection he already finished 3 day session on obedience and we had high praises from the trainer that asko has a good prey drive and very good in obedience and on the 3rd day of their training the trainer went inside directly our gate and asko was with my son off-leashed asko immediately rushed to the trainer and snapped his leg, the only problem is to my youngest son who is 19, the first time they met asko barked already at him tails wagging and ears are upright, most of the time whenever asko see my son he barks and growls at him, and my son got intimidated since then, when my son is around the house we usually tie asko inside the house or let him go outside the house, we even tried to let my son give asko treats but still my son is scared, i guess asko is intimidating my son since he knows that he scared, am i correct? as per our trainer he is telling that it might take time to correct asko's behavior towards my son, my point is it might be to late and selling the dog is not an option right now since my grand daughter loves him already. Maybe you can asses the situation and see which points are we missing on raising asko i will appreciate your honest opinion since i am not a well experienced GSD owner yet.

"if the dog has good temperament, he would NEVER do that no matter what."

Defending the puppy:
Who knows how the puppy was raised by his previous owners.  He was probably undersocialized & who knows what else.
The puppy should be introduced to the family in a calm, controlled manner.  He might be reacting to the whole situation with the panicked child.  The puppy could be reacting to the "simple jerk".
Was the puppy introduced to protection work?  He might be confused about the whole idea of what is acceptable to react to & when.  Maybe Ricky should hold off with the "good prey drive" aspect of training until the pup is settled & confident.
A puppy should be confient in his familly situation before any kind of protection work.