5 Generations - Page 2

Hi, I was wondering how much your 5th.gen. dogs show the same temperament and trainabilty as your foundation dogs had? And do you think it is genetics and or environment?

faq2,

very good question to a very good person with some insight.

Prospecting in the land of pedigree's . There is no substitution
for having seen the sires and dams....
I think this bloodline is a very good one, but Malindobe would
know first hand who are the keepers. Very good direction for
the Malinois breed.

There has been some variation in the dogs over the years, but at the same time I see a lot of consistency.  I think any differences between my foundation dogs and now could be just as easily chalked up to "environment", I'm a better trainer now than I was 15-20 years ago, as genetics.  I am more focused on grip quality than I was when I started, my mentors in the breed and in French Ring were people who didn't care how the dog bit, as long as they bit.  Actually I even remember one discouraging Cali from biting full and wrapping, he felt that the fuller a dog bit, the slower the outs would be, half mouth was just fine.  So we corrected her for wrapping, something I'd NEVER do now LOL

On the flip side I think the athletic ability has improved.  Cali could do the FR jumps at max, but the hurdle was always a challenge, the palisade and long jump she breezed over.  Kita does all of them and then looks at me like "was that supposed to be hard?"

I think the biggest change between then and now is working style.  Cali was a KNPV style banger.  Liked to launch high, and hit hard.  Enjoyed that impact and would actually seek it out.  She'd still do it if I'd let her, but one hard hit and she's hurting, so she has to find her fun elsewhere now.  JaJa was also a flyer, Kira was fast but liked to stay low, and Kita is like her mother.  So their natural targeting style has changed.   But overall the intelligence, desire to work with the handler, stability, etc has remained the same.  I like a dog that can do a lot of different things, whether it's FR/MR/Sch, herding, obedience, agility, flyball, etc.  I don't care about how outgoing they are, but they have to be stable in social settings.  But at the same time I do want appropriate aggression, I don't want just a prey dog.  And I want good drives in all areas, not just prey but hunt, pack, etc.  I lost some hunt drive for awhile, it took a hit while looking for some other traits, but I'm getting it back again to the level I want.  I also like a slightly larger female, in the 60's weight wise.  Kira was a little smaller than I like, but breeding her to my moose named Mac fixed that.

The type has changed some over the years, but considering the males were basically all outcrosses or loose linebreedings, it's stayed a lot more consistent then one might expect.  I wish 15 years ago I'd had the knowledge I have now, I told people with Cali son's and grandsons it was fine to neuter them, no big deal, and now when I'd like to go back to some of them, they aren't available anymore.  I have one litter I'm hoping will have a few nice stud potential males in it, that I can linebreed back on my foundation with, we'll see how they grow up.

Cali, JaJa and Kira


Kita.  Don't have any of her facing the camera online, but she looks a lot like her mom but with better masking.


This is Cali going nose to nose with her great grandson Paxx, Kita's brother

Malndobe, Thank you for a honest and educated answer. So it seems to be your dogs have stayed mostly consistent in 5 gen. with some minor genetic changes, about the environmental changes i think we all wish we had the knowledge 20 years ago we have now.lol.  You have some real nice dogs, keep up the good work. 

I should probably add that what I was writing about was for that specific line of dogs.  I've played with some other stuff also, some breedings that aren't very closely related to the line in this thread (1 or 2 dogs in common), and am a couple generations deep into some of that also.  The goal there being to bring everything together at some point.  But even with the other dogs there is still some consistency, since I breed what I like, and what I like stays pretty consistent.  So even if the dog is from outside lines, it will still have many traits in common with what I already have.

Malindobe,
                     Very good post, it set me to thinking about the journey we take
with our dogs from generation to generation. For me it was getting to know
the dogs over a period of time and a little luck in the beginning. Starting with
good dogs that were passed on to me. I think this is what has happened
with you and your dogs. I wish I could wake up each day and read at least 5
good post like this one. We will be the next generation to hand off this breed
for future working dog people.