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by SchaeferhundSchH on 10 February 2011 - 21:02
LOVE that video Sunsilver. I've seen it before but its a good watch even again!
I think one thing is important in dog training and Ivan Balabanov said it best in his training videos.
forgive me as I cannot remember exact quotes.
But he specifically said that he does not like "shaping" a common heavily used training tool for positive only trainers. He said he does not like to stand there and not give the dogs any communication. Then it shows a video of a dog frustrated jumping up and down and trying everything it can to get the human to give it the reward.
Then it goes on to explain he likes to give the dog clear communication. To let the dog know "this wont get you a reward try something else" and "Yes I love that keep doing that!"
I think its common sense. Its like playing the "hot or cold" game when you were a kid. It really helps to know if your getting closer or farther from the item.
Dogs are smarter than we give them credit for, and I think its important we implement communication with them however we do it so the dog understands what we want from them.
I think one thing is important in dog training and Ivan Balabanov said it best in his training videos.
forgive me as I cannot remember exact quotes.
But he specifically said that he does not like "shaping" a common heavily used training tool for positive only trainers. He said he does not like to stand there and not give the dogs any communication. Then it shows a video of a dog frustrated jumping up and down and trying everything it can to get the human to give it the reward.
Then it goes on to explain he likes to give the dog clear communication. To let the dog know "this wont get you a reward try something else" and "Yes I love that keep doing that!"
I think its common sense. Its like playing the "hot or cold" game when you were a kid. It really helps to know if your getting closer or farther from the item.
Dogs are smarter than we give them credit for, and I think its important we implement communication with them however we do it so the dog understands what we want from them.
by Ace952 on 10 February 2011 - 21:02
What amazes me about Cesar, are the things you literally see him do. I remember one show, a famous woman, think she was a singer or an actress. She had this giant Rott. It was so strong and aggressive that she couldn't take him out of the kennel any more and it just stayed in there. She had become afraid of him and totally couldn't do anything with him which was tearing her apart.. Cesar when he got there walked right into the kennel and sat down near the dog. And after a few sessions was spending time with him. I think that that was a dog that had to go back to his pack but then turned back into a very nice pet for this women and she could walk him once again. I'm a believer. Now yes, you can say we don't see behind the scenes or maybe we're not there 24/7 but I think he is something special. And that Daddy!Miss him.It was singer Patti LaBelle and the dog was a south african Boerboel.
Her manager got the dog as a pup for her to be used for PP. Obviously her manager was an idiot.
She had a dog walker come and walk him and give it play time 2x a week. In the end the dog walker ended up keeping the dog despite the fact she already have like 4 dogs and Caesar had to help her and her husband establish pack order and all. Whole situation was f'd up.
by Sunsilver on 10 February 2011 - 21:02
That's interesting, Pharoh, because I've also heard of a competition between trainers who used shock collars, and one that used more positive methods (though I don't think it was positive only, and I'm not sure if he used a clicker.)
The hitch was the other trainers had to remove the shock collars. Without that 'crutch' the dogs just did whatever they wanted to, and the non-shock collar trainer and his students won hands down.
It backs up one thing I firmly believe. It's all about the releationship between you and the dog. Any aids such as shock collars, choke chains, clickers, shake cans, etc. etc. are waaaay down the list in importance, and can be harmful if you become dependent on them.
The hitch was the other trainers had to remove the shock collars. Without that 'crutch' the dogs just did whatever they wanted to, and the non-shock collar trainer and his students won hands down.
It backs up one thing I firmly believe. It's all about the releationship between you and the dog. Any aids such as shock collars, choke chains, clickers, shake cans, etc. etc. are waaaay down the list in importance, and can be harmful if you become dependent on them.
by Pharaoh on 10 February 2011 - 22:02
I remember there were a few dogs who used a shock collar in training for specific things.
One case I remember was Jeckel who was a very amped up dog. Martha was working on fine tuning the blind search. Jeckel was so enthusiastic he would careen way past the blind and coming screaming back. What they did was signal Jeckel before he got to the blind to put on his brakes. Eventually that did work and Jeckel did a very good, still enthusiastic, but more controlled, blind search. It was a delicate dance of getting his cooperation without dampening his spirit.
Jeckel was a real crowd pleaser, super high drive and always on the brink of going out of control. Martha was a really good trainer and working with Ivan, it was always exciting. There were few dogs who were so enthusiastic.
Michele
One case I remember was Jeckel who was a very amped up dog. Martha was working on fine tuning the blind search. Jeckel was so enthusiastic he would careen way past the blind and coming screaming back. What they did was signal Jeckel before he got to the blind to put on his brakes. Eventually that did work and Jeckel did a very good, still enthusiastic, but more controlled, blind search. It was a delicate dance of getting his cooperation without dampening his spirit.
Jeckel was a real crowd pleaser, super high drive and always on the brink of going out of control. Martha was a really good trainer and working with Ivan, it was always exciting. There were few dogs who were so enthusiastic.
Michele
by Ruger1 on 10 February 2011 - 22:02
Sunsilver's Quote......
"It backs up one thing I firmly believe. It's all about the relationship between you and the dog. Any aids such as shock collars, choke chains, clickers, shake cans, etc. etc. are waaaay down the list in importance, and can be harmful if you become dependent on them. "...........
IMO, the correction collar is priority number one. When Prince sets his mind on acting like a punk, he needs a good reminder with the correction collar...I believe the relationship between me and Prince is good. Part of our good relationship is based on Prince behaving, and when he doesn't there is a consequence....I would like to think that his respect for me is enough to keep him polite....LOL....but I definitely rely on the correction collar to make the point if necessary....LOL..
JMO.....Deanna...: )
by alboe2009 on 10 February 2011 - 22:02
That's the one Ace
by Sunsilver on 10 February 2011 - 23:02
alboe, I also saw him do the same thing with a wolf dog. He went into the animal's kennel, and sat down beside it.. And this was a wolf dog that was behaviourally much closer to a wolf than a dog!
by HBFanatic on 11 February 2011 - 15:02
To me, it is not about the method used but the quality of trainer using whatever method.
There is a reason why not one clear method "wins" as to say.
Training progresses. This totally depends on how much time and knowledge a trainer puts into it.
Some stages change from day to day. And it takes more than casual observations for a competition or stuff like that to be able to judge a method.
There is a reason why not one clear method "wins" as to say.
Training progresses. This totally depends on how much time and knowledge a trainer puts into it.
Some stages change from day to day. And it takes more than casual observations for a competition or stuff like that to be able to judge a method.
by MAINLYMAX on 11 February 2011 - 18:02
Michele,
I used to listen to click and clack the auto repair guys, on the
radio....You could call in any problem you had with your car,
and they would have a really good solution for you.
In the dog world the best click and clack would be Kathy O'brian
and Martha Hoffman. They work for Guide dogs for the blind and competed
in SchH and French Ringsport. I love both of them. Top people and
characters as well. Martha is hearing impaired and still competed at the National level.
She also wrote a book....I still have a dog toy that Kathy gave me years
ago. Kathy has sold a litter of pups to the Government right after 911.
They don't make them like Kathy and Martha any more.
A blessing going out to Kathy and Martha from the Max Zone....
Here Martha and Amok....Jeckle was his nick name for a good
reason. His brother Shane and Amok were the best dogs to ever
come out of Ivan's Kennel in my opinion.
I used to listen to click and clack the auto repair guys, on the
radio....You could call in any problem you had with your car,
and they would have a really good solution for you.
In the dog world the best click and clack would be Kathy O'brian
and Martha Hoffman. They work for Guide dogs for the blind and competed
in SchH and French Ringsport. I love both of them. Top people and
characters as well. Martha is hearing impaired and still competed at the National level.
She also wrote a book....I still have a dog toy that Kathy gave me years
ago. Kathy has sold a litter of pups to the Government right after 911.
They don't make them like Kathy and Martha any more.
A blessing going out to Kathy and Martha from the Max Zone....
Here Martha and Amok....Jeckle was his nick name for a good
reason. His brother Shane and Amok were the best dogs to ever
come out of Ivan's Kennel in my opinion.
by MAINLYMAX on 11 February 2011 - 19:02
Michele,
The dog that put so much civil drive in Amok was this dog.
Unfortunately there are not alot of dogs with his bloodline. But
the few that have are all good dogs. Amok had ton of this
bloodline, but Martha would not let Ivan breed back to him.
Martha is her own person and very good trainer.
Cuik du Clos St.Michel
The dog that put so much civil drive in Amok was this dog.
Unfortunately there are not alot of dogs with his bloodline. But
the few that have are all good dogs. Amok had ton of this
bloodline, but Martha would not let Ivan breed back to him.
Martha is her own person and very good trainer.
Cuik du Clos St.Michel
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