Protection Defense Question - Page 2

He may be a little confused by your decoy.  A very confident dog will not consider the decoy a threat and will not go into defense.  The helper you describe is clearly not presenting a viable threat to the dog.  If you get a helper that has a real "presence" and can impress upon your dog that it is not always fun and games your dog will either go into defense or avoidance.  Be careful in choosing your decoy for this, he need to be very skilled and experienced.  It is really not difficult to push a dog into defense, I can do do it by a look and body posture.  If the dog is confused and expecting prey from me he will quickly learn that the look means business.

Jim

Thanks for all your comments.

The helper we use to work with was described to me as not reading dogs right, so I started to work with a new helper who has been a helper at the USA Nationals a few times.  He was highly recommended to me.  He said the first time he worked him that he did not have much fight, but showed alot of courage.  We have been working with him for a couple months now.  He has still yet to get the dog to go into much defense.  So we took him out and walked down a path in the hills and the helper came out of the bushes while I was walking the dog.  As soon as the helper steped out, Donte' started to wag his tail and bark the same bark. 

Fordogs,
You need to learn to read your dog just like a helper does.  A wagging tail only means the dog is excited, it can be happy or aggressive.  The bark and wagging tail only show a part of the picture, not the whole picture.  Your decoy doesn't have to jump out of the bushes to put the dog into defense. 

A video would definitely help in figuring out what is going on.

Jim

So, you want the dog hackled up, tail between its legs, showing teeth to make you happy?

You need to sit down and have a long talk about aggression opposesed to just "defense" with your helper.  I know....I know.....I know they can both be considered the same....

Check out some vid of GOOD police dogs.  Believe me...there are good and bad ones of those also.

The good ones may have their tails wagging ears up and look like they are going for their toy......which they are...but it is  serious and they love to kick ass!

I wouldnt post vid of your helper workingt he dog unless you have permission from him.

Thanks again to all that have replied.  I was not looking to see if you could fix my dog!  I was really just wondering how common it was to have a dog that was not very defensive.  I know I am very inexperienced and I have a lot to learn.  I am sorry to have bothered you all.  I guess I just need to read more and communicate with the helper more and try to understand.

Fordogs,
It is a valid question and the only way to learn is to ask.  We all were new at one time and wanted to learn, the only way to do it is by asking questions and training.

Keep the questions coming, there are people that will offer insights in an attempt to help.  The big thing is sorting through the responses and seeing what works or who makes sense.  Take what you read but remember it is tadvice from the internet, use it wisely and cautiously.  Sift through peoples posts and see who has experience and if it makes any sense to you.
Jim

Fordogs, please don't stop asking questions. Like Jim said, it is a way to learn. It is not only you learning, either, but also an opportunity for others to learn. For instance in response to this question: I have worked with several helpers and several dogs and when it seemed to not go right, I always figured it was me or the dog. As an inexperienced handler, I never considered it to be the helper as someone mentioned here. So, keep asking. Many have a lot to learn.

Thank you slamdunc &  Davren,  Everyone thinks that they are going to get a dog and that dog is going to do everything that it takes to do Schutzhund but when you start actually seeing what it takes there is a lot more to it than we realize at first.  I really appreciate all of your help and I'm sure I will have more questions.  Thanks for not writing me off and calling me stupid.