Councilman threatened for stance against Pit Bulls - Page 2

www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog_adoption

Go to the above link on the database, and enter "Americal Pit Bull Terrier." You will be shocked at what you find: 556 PAGES of dogs looking for new homes!

Many of these dogs will wind up being euthanized due to the pit bull's reputation.

Something HAS to be done to curb the indiscriminate breeding of these dogs. The shelters are packed with them. Ontario solved the problem by banning the breed. I don't approve of breed bans, but it does seem to have worked. :(  Anyone got any better ideas?

My town just had an add on the front page a few days ago about considering the restiction of pit bulls. They are thinking mote along the lines of set rules for the size and type of cage they must be kept in and making residents buy liability insurance in order to own pit bulls. I like this idea as oposed to banning. Hopefully this will keep the poor dogs from being chained in backyards and left to half starve and eventually become aggressive.

This picture is from the article and this shows a pitbull in my town. This dog is in great shape compared to most around here.

How would it do that?  The people who already take good care of their pit bulls will have to pay all that money for liability insurance and the people who are mistreating them and/or dumping them - you think for one minute they're going to suddenly become all law-abiding and buy liability insurance???

This is the critical danger is legislation - it will only harm the good people and the bad people will totally ignore it, like they always do.

@ kelly, besides the couch debri what is wrong with the above pic. I don't see why people have a problem with tying a dog on a chain.

A plastic barrel is the same material a igloo or other manufactered dog houses. Not the prettiest, but they are adequate. I prefer wood houses because they don't hold water.
The dog didn't look to be malnourished.
The dog did look to have a 2" flat collar to prevent injury to the neck.
A 5' chain gives more room than a 10x10 kennel.
A proper chain set up is more secure than the average chain link 10x10 kennel. Preventing dogs from escaping

I've seen many top Husky sled teams with chain set ups for their dogs. The sled team at Denali National Park keeps their dogs on chain and swivel set ups.

Dogs on chains have the same needs as dogs in kennels. Walking, exercise, engaging activities, and regular cleaning of area.

I also believe if cities would enforce the laws they have in place and increase penalties and prosecution for abuse and neglect cases they would have better results than breed bans.

Also, I'm not sure if the pit/x is more represented in shelters than gsd/x and lab/x

I stated above the picture "this dog is in great shape compared to most around here"

This was the picture that went along with the article. I was just sharing it.

Although around here most pit bulls arent so lucky. You can drive though a "bad" neighborhood and you better believe over half the homes have a malnourished pit bull on a tow chain in the backyard. No one does anything to help these dogs. Not the police, not animal control, nobody!

 SitasMom, you have made some of the most ignorant comments on Pit Bulls I have ever read anywhere, except for maybe those goofy comments at the end of a Yahoo news story or something. In other posts you have made ridiculous blanket statements about the breed, and here you imply by your statement that you really don't even know any! If you don't know what you're talking about, how about you keep quiet?

Sorry, but I'm sick to death of the ignorance about them and the people who own them! The people who own and love the American Pit Bull Terrier might shock you. Many/most  are not at all like the people who allow their poorly bred, likely crossbred (molosser crosses) to roam around terrorizing people. Squeaky wheel syndrome applies here! I am totally bored and frustrated with defending the breed from a stereotype it doesn't even deserve, as most people who bash them don't even know what a Pit Bull is and is not. 

I guess this makes me a meathead, according to the wisdom of Felloffhim
(who I do agree with regarding gov't) , but anything I can do to set myself apart from that kind of blanket-statement mentality is ok in my book.

Hey, Mods, can I change my name to Meathead? LOL




These are American Pit Bull Terriers. Gamebred, at that. My male is a heavyweight, by the standard. He is considered "puny" by the idiots who think Razor's Edge is the epitome of the APBT. I am kind of small; Simon weighs around 55lbs. Seven is about 30. And yes, I've been known to chain them, and hell no, I will not be purchasing any additional insurance in this free country because of the breed I choose to own. Liability insurance should only be mandated in cases where a dog has a history, OR an owner has a history of irresponsibility.  Leave the rest of us meatheads alone.

Sorry for the rant, everyone who's read my thousands of rants on this subject over the last decade.

~Meathead Jen

KellyJ, thanks for discussing with me in an intelligent, reasonable manner. LOL, I know, I know, shouldn't have to say it, but you know this board.....    Anyway: 

Purchasing liability insurance is prohibitively expensive for a lot of people who otherwise can afford to take good care of their dogs.  They simply could not afford it. The day this passes will be dump day for countless pit bulls.  You think shelters & rescues are overwhelmed now? Just wait until that passes.

Your other insurance company may very likely drop you if you harbor officially legally-designated "dangerous dogs." If they don't drop you, your homeowner's premium will likely skyrocket.

You write: "-- I do not think they will purchase the liability insurance. That is the point. It will keep these dogs out of thier hands. The city will have to do thier part to make sure people abide by the rules."

Critical question: enforcement.  Again, there is no enforcement now of the laws that already exist that prohibit dog fighting, that prohibit dumping dogs, that prohibit animal neglect, that prohibit animal abuse.  There is simply not the manpower to enforce the laws we already have.  It is fantasy to think that new insurance laws will keep pit bulls out of the hands of people who already have no problem breaking lots of laws.

Last point.  A year or two ago in VA, PETA proposed to meet the lack of manpower objection by offering its own representatives to do door-to-door searches in any community.  They would have legal authority to seize or cite anybody. How horrible is that? 

Do not be lulled into the "lesser of two evils" argument ("IF laws are going to be passed, I'd rather...."). It's a false step that leads us further down the road of banning/insuring/muzzle restrictions/MSN/fencing regs, etc. etc regarding a long list of other breeds.  Insurance companies have a lot of money. They can lobby effectively for this.  AR groups love it because they know ownership of legislated breeds will plummet, and they can knock off animal ownership (which is their goal) one breed at a time.

Specific breed restrictions, whether of ownership or insurance, etc. are not the answer.  Education is the answer. Sounds like a platitude, and it's certainly slower and not a "flashy" answer, but it is long term the best, the most effective, and the only thing that will work, and that does not punish the law abiding while allowing the scofflaws to continue business as usual.  The culture shift has to happen first.

Thanks for the discussion.

 TOTALLY, completely, 100% agree w/Tess.

Kelly (and everyone who isn't aware of it already) look up what happened in Denver when they banned Pit Bulls. It was absolutely terrifying. Dogs were seized from their homes on the basis of looks alone- owners had TEN DAYS to either move or get rid of their dogs. The ones who couldn't, had their dogs ripped right from their homes. I was absolutely shocked. 

Since I've been following this for a while now and I think it's important to point out that the ban the Councilman is proposing is not just for Pit Bulls, it's got 10 breeds on the list INCLUDING GSD's

The list of 10 dog breeds includes:
Pit bulls,
Rottweilers,
German Shepherds,
Huskies,
Alaskan Malamutes,
Doberman Pinschers,
Chow Chows,
Great Danes,
St. Bernards, and
Presa Canarios

While I don't agree with threatening someone for their opinion, I will say that this councilman is out of line.  And if you watch the video you'll find that the writer did not actually threaten the councilman they just used language that made him fearful. 

The ordinance, also, requires ALL dogs on this list to be muzzled anytime they are outside along with a substantial licensing fee and quite a few other restrictions on ownership of the listed "dangerous breeds"

You would be truly shocked at the kind of responses this councilman has been giving anyone that writes to him in opposition of this ordinance.  He has made it quite clear that his opinion is the only right one and that no other opinion matters.  If he's been answering all of his emails and letters as aggressively as he did in this email, I'm not surprised someone felt the need to try an intimidate  him.  Here's a copy of his response to one lady that questioned his opposition and made the mistake of pointing out that he's an elected official drawing a taxpayer salary.  Her original letter to him include a great deal of valid information on  why breed bans don't work.

Dear Hermine from outside of Saginaw: “A person whose tax money pays my salary?” Do you mean the $45 per meeting that we receive as City Council members with no compensation whatsoever for any Council duties taken on outside of those meetings? Spare me the dramatics.

I would expect the kind of response from you that you sent. YOUR opinion and position is the ONLY acceptable position and the safety of the public be damned!

Send my email wherever you would like. If people should vote against me due to my position on promoting public safety, then they deserve what they get when they, or one of their loved ones, ends up dead or hospitalized due to the attack of one of their “misunderstood” animals.

I represent the citizenry that wishes to be safer in their homes and neighborhoods. If you or your friends/relatives are not in that group so be it. It is my sad conclusion that you are an example of the worst of those who hold contempt for public safety when faced with monumental evidence that your position is misguided, selfish, uninformed, and, worst of all, dangerous to others.


Dr. Bill Scharffe
Professional Grandfather, very UNPROFESSIONAL Golfer
(And Saginaw City Councilman)
2812 Adams Blvd.
Saginaw, MI 48602-3103
989-793-7079