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by giblaut on 19 January 2011 - 16:01
The stud dog owner is undertaking no risk, puts in no labor, and has no responsibility for the care, feeding, health, future, or placement of the puppies. The stud dog owner puts his time and money into the dog as far as buying him, taking care of him, competing him, and marketing him--the stud fee reimburses him for that. His only risk is whether or not he will attract people to breed to his dog.
My general thinking is that a stud fee should be about half the price of a puppy and that to trade a puppy for the price of a puppy is a losing proposition for me, the bitch owner, unless
(1) I'm dealing with a friend who I know will do well by the puppy and who I'd give a break on the price anyway,
(2) I don't have the cash so I take the future loss of the puppy price instead of coming up with the cash,
(3) I think the stud dog owner will do something really great with the puppy that will make me and my bitch/breeding program look great.
If I *were* to trade a puppy for a stud fee for some reason, there would be no guarantee on hips/elbows/temperament. That guarantee is added value that I put into my puppies, which is one of the things that make a puppy worth more than a stud fee.
I think very few people actually look at the true costs of breeding if you're going to do it responsibly and be held responsible for potential future costs (in my contract, I give 50% of the purchase price back if hips/elbows don't pass). That's why a lot of people have hip guarantees that are really no use at all--"send me your dog back and i'll give you a puppy" -- most people aren't going to take the breeder up on that offer so there's very little future liability for the breeder.
As a breeder, I am undertaking some significant financial risks--unless I am treating the puppies like livestock and euthanize any puppy that will cost me money (say a puppy breaks a leg at 3 weeks--the more financially wise responsible decision is to euthanize; the responsible breeder decision is to get the vet to fix the leg; the abusive/neglectful breeder doesn't do anything at all--the cheapest option).
My general thinking is that a stud fee should be about half the price of a puppy and that to trade a puppy for the price of a puppy is a losing proposition for me, the bitch owner, unless
(1) I'm dealing with a friend who I know will do well by the puppy and who I'd give a break on the price anyway,
(2) I don't have the cash so I take the future loss of the puppy price instead of coming up with the cash,
(3) I think the stud dog owner will do something really great with the puppy that will make me and my bitch/breeding program look great.
If I *were* to trade a puppy for a stud fee for some reason, there would be no guarantee on hips/elbows/temperament. That guarantee is added value that I put into my puppies, which is one of the things that make a puppy worth more than a stud fee.
I think very few people actually look at the true costs of breeding if you're going to do it responsibly and be held responsible for potential future costs (in my contract, I give 50% of the purchase price back if hips/elbows don't pass). That's why a lot of people have hip guarantees that are really no use at all--"send me your dog back and i'll give you a puppy" -- most people aren't going to take the breeder up on that offer so there's very little future liability for the breeder.
As a breeder, I am undertaking some significant financial risks--unless I am treating the puppies like livestock and euthanize any puppy that will cost me money (say a puppy breaks a leg at 3 weeks--the more financially wise responsible decision is to euthanize; the responsible breeder decision is to get the vet to fix the leg; the abusive/neglectful breeder doesn't do anything at all--the cheapest option).
by BlackthornGSD on 19 January 2011 - 16:01
Oops--that last post was me. Didn't even know I had that log in anymore!
Christine
Christine
by Kimmelot on 19 January 2011 - 17:01
I fully disagree with the Price of a stud service being worth 1/2 the price of ONE puppy. When some one comes to you and wants a litter of puppies (2-11 say) they should at least pay UP FRONT the cost of one Pet quality puppy.
The issue is this ! - If you have your stud service low , say $500 , the people are not going to sell there puppies for $1000 ( say the same as you do out of your stud dog) , they will figure that they will get there money back and then some by selling the puppies cheaply , say from $250-$750 and undercut you taking buyers from you first off, and devaluing your breeding program.
Our Stud service price is $1000. I don't have any fancy stud ( Nice Ped yes), and I don't want a bunch of people coming for stud service either. But I also guarantee 4 live puppies, and will re-breed the bitch, or re-breed a 2nd choice bitch, and offer to show up for an A-I if needed. If there dog never gets prego I offer a Puppy ( Male or Female) from one of my own litters to the bitch owner.
Its NOT just taking a stud service money and running. You are 1/2 responsible for creating that litter, and thus should be available for teaching the bitch owner the ropes, helping place the puppies created, and you potentially are allowing your bloodline to go running wild and out of your control- your loss that your getting for a quick stud service.
I am deeply disturbed at the prices of stud service here in California, especially when there are too many GSDs coming from BYBs with no intention on guaranteeing there dogs at all.
The bitch owner should Guarantee there own puppies, In California there is a required 1 year Genetic Guarantee by law. There are other states with similar Lemon laws. Hopefully the Bitch owner copies the stud owner's Guarantee, or gives $$ to the Stud owner to guarantee each puppy sold ( say 20%) so that if the bitch owner does not have puppies to replace a defective puppy in the future ( if this was a one time thing) then the Stud owner would give a new puppy from his own litter to the buyer.
Whisper Gray
The issue is this ! - If you have your stud service low , say $500 , the people are not going to sell there puppies for $1000 ( say the same as you do out of your stud dog) , they will figure that they will get there money back and then some by selling the puppies cheaply , say from $250-$750 and undercut you taking buyers from you first off, and devaluing your breeding program.
Our Stud service price is $1000. I don't have any fancy stud ( Nice Ped yes), and I don't want a bunch of people coming for stud service either. But I also guarantee 4 live puppies, and will re-breed the bitch, or re-breed a 2nd choice bitch, and offer to show up for an A-I if needed. If there dog never gets prego I offer a Puppy ( Male or Female) from one of my own litters to the bitch owner.
Its NOT just taking a stud service money and running. You are 1/2 responsible for creating that litter, and thus should be available for teaching the bitch owner the ropes, helping place the puppies created, and you potentially are allowing your bloodline to go running wild and out of your control- your loss that your getting for a quick stud service.
I am deeply disturbed at the prices of stud service here in California, especially when there are too many GSDs coming from BYBs with no intention on guaranteeing there dogs at all.
The bitch owner should Guarantee there own puppies, In California there is a required 1 year Genetic Guarantee by law. There are other states with similar Lemon laws. Hopefully the Bitch owner copies the stud owner's Guarantee, or gives $$ to the Stud owner to guarantee each puppy sold ( say 20%) so that if the bitch owner does not have puppies to replace a defective puppy in the future ( if this was a one time thing) then the Stud owner would give a new puppy from his own litter to the buyer.
Whisper Gray
by BlackthornGSD on 19 January 2011 - 17:01
I've never met a stud dog owner who offers any sort of guarantee related to the health of the puppies or has any involvement or responsibility for puppies after they are born.
Many stud dog owners will guarantee one live puppy or a free re-breeding. But not all of them offer even that much.
Many stud dog owners will guarantee one live puppy or a free re-breeding. But not all of them offer even that much.
by hunter k-9 on 19 January 2011 - 20:01
What kind of stud would it take for you guys to give 2 pups or half the litter? (as a stud fee) I have heard of this but never would go for something like this.
by Kimmelot on 19 January 2011 - 21:01
Here is another thing. Why should the Stud owner wait 4 months until they get paid ? What if the bitch never get's bred ? (If the dog is proven then why should it be the Stud owner that looses ?) And why should a stud owner go out of there way to sell puppies, and then have to guarantee those puppies should something go wrong ? Or end up keeping the puppy too long because the female's line is harder to sell than there own.
I see on Pet sites where they offer stud services, where they ask for puppies back. I think if they where serious breeders they would have to be good friends with a long history to be able to split a litter, or offer 2 puppies. I am in the mix of trading stud services, one for another, and that includes the hosting of the bitches for up to 20 days. Her male is OFA Excellent and out of our old bloodlines mixed with some local German working/Show lines, she is a very good friend and I have bred her bitch for her in the past.
Whatever you do, do it in writing.
Whisper Gray
I see on Pet sites where they offer stud services, where they ask for puppies back. I think if they where serious breeders they would have to be good friends with a long history to be able to split a litter, or offer 2 puppies. I am in the mix of trading stud services, one for another, and that includes the hosting of the bitches for up to 20 days. Her male is OFA Excellent and out of our old bloodlines mixed with some local German working/Show lines, she is a very good friend and I have bred her bitch for her in the past.
Whatever you do, do it in writing.
Whisper Gray
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