Your thoughts on teaching the out in protection - Page 2

Bhall, what you just posted should have been in your first post on the GSD Board.

Bhall , when I visited a training of a dog I bred , they were changing pillows , the helper shouts OUT and offers a new pillow
by repeating this on and on  the dog gets conditioned on the command

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5plll-hjHo

I had the same problem with my male , outed fine in IPO but everytime after working the full suit in KNPV  he outed not so good , I used Ecollar to fix that

See I have different problem.. on a Schutzhund field he kinda outs but in PSA he outs like a charm.. because he gets another bite!  Also his fight i sometimes so strong the helper cant lock up and has to hold on to the sleeve with two hands and hovers over without noticing it..Game ON>>>>   unless the helper has the respect.. he will not out and you can do it all E collar, pinch nothing helps.. once the dog has you read it is over. I lost so many points on second outs that I wanted to cry. on my helper he outs like a charm...Thinking strong dogs suck sometimes.. LOL

For a young dog, let them win the tug or sleeve, then "OUT" them onto a new one.  That way "out" has the positive association of starting a new game, wanting the new and moving object.  This sets the foundation for outs.

For an adult dog who won't out, use an obedience command to out, this is assuming you have good ob.  EX- Let's say he is on the sleve, on a low-key calm bite.  The helper locks up.  You, the handler will hold the leash on a prong collar and you will calmly say "OUT, SIT."  Now, in order to follow your obedience command, the dog must let go in order to sit.  If not, you will correct him over sit.  Now IMMEDIATELY when he sits, he is given another bite and praised, letting him win the sleeve quickly.

We put several helpers on the field, all with sleeves and once the dog figured out he could bite another helper, he would let go of the sleeve and go for another.  This is a very hard, sleeve happy dog.  Once he has it and he has decided it is his he will not release without electric.  But the smorgasboard of helpers really did the trick that day.  I might add he also is very strong and knows that he can get that sleeve off of the helper by pulling it backwards and placing his feet on the helpers butt.  It takes a strong, savy helper to avoid losing the sleeve to this dog...definitely a two handed approach on the sleeve.  Too bad we don't have that many helpers on hand every day.  I think this dog would be "cured" if we could work him this way everytime.       

Don,  I don't get what you are saying.  However, I always like to know how other people approach a problem and the different methods.

GSDPack,  That is Grec.  He can be very pushy and once he knows he can move a helper he will.  Once the helper is intimidated it's ON.

Well if it is real life scenario and he or she is in fight I do not care if the dog outs I choke them off .I start young dogs outing for a bigger tug than the original reward. Older dogs I let bite and out then give the jacket as the reward if the bite is full many if given the option for another bite will learn to look for another decoy or go for another bite. If that is the case I use a prong with a tab and have the decoy correct into the bite under his leg so the dog does not see it or run a long line under the decoys legs and out the dog behind the decoy.

Bridget,

               I really know only one  time tested method,....because I work
exclusively with high temperament, high drive dogs.

Foundation, foundation, foundation!!!

If you know the dogs predecessors,..This helps you
anticipate what will be needed to do to set up a sound,
reliable foundation on your puppy or a reclamation job on
a dog that has been poorly trained.

With horses you will see people who make a good living
putting foundation work on horses with intention of
selling them to professional horse people.

Horses have a much smaller gene pool to choose from
for work. So this makes it easier for everyone to be on the
same page...As far as what to expect.... Hope this helps you.


Happy holidays.

Duke1965,
Nice training on behalf of decoy, dog and handler. Really enjoyed the setup and the fact that the training is more than patterned. Nice dog also!!