A dog making a judgement call - Page 2

As young children, we grew up with German Sheppards.  They were taught to guard but to obey commands.  From my experience, they do think on their own, and will disobey an owners call.  For example, our german sheppard saved my little brothers life.  My mom answered someone at the gate, and in the meantime, my little brother made his way down to the lake (we lived at the lake) and the dog named Fluffy followed him, and stopped him from going into the water. 
My mom called her seveal times,  but she refused to come, so my mom had to go find her.  When she found her, she saw that  Fluffy  would not let my brother in the water.  Whichever way he went, she followed. 
So I believe that the dogs know what to do by command but also think on their own.
I now have a Chow Chow, and he comes to my defense if someone is rather loud with me, he comes and checks it out. 
I believe that animals even if taught by command sees that their owner is in danger, that they would react to guard you.
Only my opinion though from my experiences

Ace952,
good topic. Every dog should be obedience trained no matter what his tasks to perform are. If a dog is trained properly , he will not only work on command, but if bred right will also be of clear head and have the ability to act in responce to a threat. But under certain conditions. A psd for instance is always under control of his handler(or should be). Simply because of being in the general public so much, and the liability of mistakes. On the other hand protection dogs that while on thier own only have access to intruders absolutely should and must be able to sense a threat and  act on thier own. But saying that you better have your ducks in a row. I have 2 fences that only I can unlock, no trespassing signs at every gate.  Most important I work my dogs for protection, and know which ones to have out at day or night. Obedience training done properly should never hinder a dogs inherant ability to protect and decern between a threat and non threat. but the differance is what conditions and tasks are the dogs asked to work under.
hank 
Also every state has laws about signs, dog security and such, that vari from state to state. so do you're
homework.

If your talking about protection, I think what they mean a dog should not make the decision to attack unless told to because that can be considered thoughtless, you want a dog that thinks before (s)he reacts, a dog that does so without thinking can have consequence, I think a dog that does this would be considered sharp, but not necessarily nervy.  Me personally, I want a dog to think before reacting, but at the same time if someone is attacking me I want them to come to my defense but be absolutely sure (s)he is making the right decision.  One of my dogs did make a judgment call, I was in a verbal confrontation that was about to become physical with someone (I would have gotten my arse beat too, I'm tiny) who my dog grew up with, she was certain my dog would not do anything to her because she knew her and all of the commands...Alexa just watched...she thought about it, she then made the decision to go up to this person and basically say "back off"  (hold and bark) The woman yelled at my dog and actually tried to tell my own dog to attack me and Lexi got closer to her, I honestly think she found it offensive, she didn't bite her but she let her know she would if she made another step toward me...I grabbed Lexi and we went our separate ways so this is kind of a touchy subject, but in conclusion I would never want a dog that was sharp enough to make their own decision to bite because they could be making a mistake and not realizing it...like a child running at her father and making the judgment call to attack the child because the dog assumed the father was in danger instead of thinking about it and/or waiting for a command.

In a perfect world the dog can make its own  calls but its not like that all the time.  So you do need training put a good dog will protect you without being told to and thats the kind of gsd i want and have.  They have to be able to make calls thereself in real like i watched my girl do it today with a ups guy she decided was shady.  She did the rite thing to she barked held her ground but keep her distance while seeing what his next move was.  Then when he showed he was no threat and was leaveing she turned it rite off i was proud of her.  And i gave her no commands at all she didnt need any as far as i was concerned the ups guy would disagree.

Well, Blair I agree with you, but not all dogs are the same.  Some dogs will attack and hurt the wrong person for no reason,....just like my girl Lex did, she made the call, did not bite just warned her....but I'd still rather have a dog that thinks rather then just attacks thoughtlessly.  Props to your dog.

our rescue prince made a call on his own when we were at work (15 yrs ago) our house was being worked on the guys were there for 3 months he played shared lunches with them we would leave the door open for them tell prince they were coming  he'd let them in no problems..one day we locked the door said nothing to prince, the guys showed up to work tried to climb in a window and was met by teeth fangs and dog spit , we found a note on door to by him a steak ,they tried for 2 hours to sweeten him up ,we had no curtaians on any windows that day 1 

what you need to realize is that most people writing on the internet about what dogs should be and how they train them, are living in a fantasy world as they have never trained a dog to do shit.  They like to talk big and tell big stories.  wait till you actually meet some of them and see their dogs. 

 Oh but zdog, my Huskies know that they shouldn't talk to strangers, and that if an intruder comes in they are to 911.  Some nights though I come home to see they called their poker playing dog buddies and they're all sitting around the kitchen table with poker cards and doggie biscuits for chips. Crazy dogs.

It's funny how we can have a good topic and there's always ONE PERSON. Anyways Almost all are god points, mostly right on. I'm right there with Slamdunc and desert dog. To the OP it just depends what you want the dog to do and to do for you. Without sounding wrong, and maybe it's the way a question is asked but it's interesting at times what a person is really asking? To me it's not a simple "This is what happens and that is that" but hours and hours of training, practicals and scenarios. Different conditions, night, day, verbal, non-verbal,  I don't want to overload my dogs early but I want them to know the experience(s) and different stimulus's so that when an unknown arises they don't shut down or freeze up per se. I'm sure there are dogs that with no training that knew what to do at the right time whatever it was that needed to be done. There was a thread one time (and I can't remamber if the dog was trained or not? Not the point). But the OP stated I believe her little girl was playing in the yard and a stranger pulled up in the street and exited the vehicle and started approaching the little girl. The dog intervened and stood ground between the subject and the little girl until the subject for whatever reason)s) got back into his car and left.
Without any commands the dog did what was needed no more. So there is a prime example. And then one person commented on where the parent were? Why was the child alone? Maybe the guy just wanted directions? etc; etc. and tried to blow the post apart? If people honestly think that nothing bad will come their way hey more power to you. But all you have to do is pick up the news paper, turn on the t.v. or talk to one of your fiends or acquaintances. I'm amazed when you see a situation take place and it could've been prevented just by having a dog. And for the person cracking on the dogs or handlers or owners.......I wonder if he/she even has a dog? But that's unnecesary energy. Depends on the dog, the handler and the training put into the dog. And what you want the dog to do.

I have 2 Siberian Huskies, highly intelligent dogs which makes them stubborn mules, but I love them!

Zdog, The database is supposed to be an informative forum where people can learn from each other and not start battles, I'll be honest this place scares me.... if you piss off a person, all it takes is one rumor and a majority of the Database will believe it ..Everyone has their ideal dog, I have mine...everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I don't know who your comment was directed at and to be honest your right, you can never tell who is telling the truth, and who talks big because it's the internet, although many people will openly admit their schutzhund dogs would not serve well as a real protection dog.  Someone made a thread about honesty in the faults of their dogs, I always try to tell the truth, but no one really knows who is lying and who isn't.  Like I said this is a touchy subject, sure I want my dog to act without being told to if someone physically attacked me, or broke into my home, but there are some dogs that just attack without thinking and that is something I find undesirable depending on the dog, as I gave an example above in my other post...all it takes is one time for the dog to misjudge and hurt the wrong person.

Desert Dog, in regards to signs where are I live we are not allowed to post beware of dogs on fences and such, only in the window of your home, you can post "No Trespassing" of course just no beware of dog signs. but we have a law that states if someone comes onto your property with criminal intent and your dog injures them, it's an oh well situation for the criminal, there is also another law that protects trained dogs, if the dog was under command to bite the person, the dog can't be held "liable" and put down for obeying the command, especially if the dog is otherwise friendly and approachable.