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by dAWgESOME on 05 November 2010 - 21:11
Live, learn and get on with your day

by Judy P on 05 November 2010 - 22:11
First of all, I would have never purchased a 14 month old female without prelims especially if I was getting the bitch as a Sch/Breeding dog. As a breeder I would not have sold the bitch without being done. As for the bitch being bred early and whelping at 21 months - in many places as long as hips were done there would be no problem with it. I personally doubt the bitch's hips were affected by the pregnancy but rather her hips were not good to begin with.
This is one reason to sell all dogs on limited registration and only after hips/elbows are certified lifting the limited reg.
by Czech DDR Lover on 05 November 2010 - 22:11
For this buyer to be asking for any kind of compensation at this stage is a mute point...they broke the contract requirements with the litter this dog produced, against their agreement to not allow her to do so.
Regardless of the hip rating outcome, by allowing this they voided their protection for compensation on the dog...plus, they have already been compensated by the sale of their "pets" in the litter.
It's highly possible that the hip outcome could be the result of her being bred at such a young age, done when she herself is still producing and forming her own bone growth, and is asked now instead to provide her own needed calcium and nourishment to give to her growing litter inside her. This is the reason we know not to Xray while the bitch is in heat, because those pregnancy hormones are raging, and the same is true for following having whelped a litter, depending on the length of time the pups have been born and weaned from the dam...these hormones continue to flow for some time following birthing and weaning of the pups.
About the suggestion to let this owner have a discounted price on a new puppy...unfortunately for me if I would ever have to be faced with this scenario, my answer would be no on a new puppy, even if they did pay part of the purchase price again. This is because it's possible the second dog would follow suit to the same outcome as the first.
In my mind it is similar to my views about owners who contact me, asking for (to purchase) another pup because their dog has escaped from their yard or when someone let them out without supervision (no fenced area) and the dog runs out on the street and gets hit and killed...or is stolen as it's wandering around aimlessly. It's also the same as I view an owner who lets their dog ride loose in the back of an unsecured pick up truck bed, and who's animal is thrown out of the vehicle onto the road, being hit by the oncoming car behind them.
It's my policy not to sell a NEW pup to owners who are calling me because they just lost their pup to these kinds of accidents, whether they are my pup originally or not...my answer must be "sorry, I can't sell you my puppy". IMO There is no justifiable excuse for these things..no different than letting these things happen to children, as they are both in the same category of care requirements, in that they cannot do it for themselves.
It's up to their caregivers to make sure these things don't happen to them.

by EKvonEarnhardt on 05 November 2010 - 22:11
Red Sable - I have not see that post
Judy I agree that the litter had very litter to due with the out come of the hips but if he did ideed sign a contract and she was not OFA then in most contract that would void any replacement or money back .
I then would agree with the earlier post shit happens and lesson learned
EK

by nonacona60 on 05 November 2010 - 22:11
Edited to add...
Doesn't it seem to make more sense to just keep a client happy instead of having an upset one giving bad opinions of you, as the breeder....Just a thought....Replacing the dog is a small price to pay to maintain a good name....

by EKvonEarnhardt on 05 November 2010 - 23:11
Doesn't it seem to make more sense to just keep a client happy instead of having an upset one giving bad opinions of you, as the breeder....Just a thought....Replacing the dog is a small price to pay to maintain a good name....
Well, let me ask you this then, What is the reason for a contract? (I went and read the other post about this) if it is true that he did breed the dog before the age of two with out having OFA done (sounds like the breeder has proof to back up what she is claiming) then why would you "reward" him with another puppy? He voided his warranty . Yes there are situration that I would replace a dog to make a client happy ..... but this is not one of them. He and anyone else can say what they want but trueth be trueth..
and yes I am talking for experience. I have been in this breeders shoes and many others where the clients think they can get away with voiding their contract BUT expect the breeder to up hold their end.
If you do not stand up for what you believe in then then why have a contract, why breed ?
EK

by Abby Normal on 05 November 2010 - 23:11
but since they are not working and are pets its not an issue.
Try telling the owner who loves their dog that has HD it is not an issue because they are only a pet. This really P*sses me off, and I can tell you from experience it IS an issue for the dog and for the owner..

by nonacona60 on 05 November 2010 - 23:11

by VomMysticalHaus on 06 November 2010 - 01:11
workingdogsddr aka accidental breeder in question - funny that you just registered here today to defend the owner of the "pet" that was accidentally bred...
You called me and told me that she had accidentally been bred and you were going to sell the puppies for full price "because they were worth full price". I told you it was not a good idea and tried to guide you then, stressing that her hips had not been prelimbed and you had no idea if she had good hips or not. I told you that you should place the puppies for an adoption fee to cover your expenses and consider it a learning lesson. Shortly there after you called again and told me that the breeding did not take. Either you were being dishonest then or you are being dishonest now,because the female in question was bred and you did sell puppies either from that breeding "that did not result in puppies" or in a second breeding later on that she did have puppies with.
I keep good records - I have the airway bill - You purchased and received her on 7/29/09. Her date of birth was 6/26/2008 and she came into heat that month... so if that is the "accidental breeding" it was at 13 months of age.
When I posted the truth on her pedigree here you deleted her off of the PDB. Why do that unless you are trying to hide something? I am not hiding anything.
Tell these people on here the truth - that you are a hobby breeder and that you have a web site to market your puppies. That she was not "just a pet"
THAT YOU ARE JUST MAD BECAUSE I CAUGHT YOU IN YOUR LIES!!!
The facts are that when you found out that I would not give you a replacement dog to be "accidentally" bred again you became very angry with me. I have replaced a few puppies per my contract that have came up with only 1 testicle over the last 5 years, so replacing a dog is not the issue here. The issue is that you voided your contract when you allowed her to have that litter and I WILL NOT place another of my dogs in your possession to have the same thing happen.

by VomMysticalHaus on 06 November 2010 - 01:11
If the breeder/ poor client had not voided his contract I would be making arrangements to replace his dog right now.
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