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by judron55 on 13 October 2010 - 18:10
aren't they all the same breed...just different coats? I have seen mixed (2 grelitters out of supposedly 2 malinois here in the states!
by duke1965 on 13 October 2010 - 18:10
phil and malndobe , the history of these breeds is complicated , as there are various registries and interpretations , and than you also got the cases were the paperwork will say this is the daddy , but in fact it was another
like I said earlier I personally know of top GSD , malis , dutchies and bouviers with incorrect pedigrees , so what history is to believe
many top malinois used to be entered under different names and numbers in the various registries in the past , so its kind of difficult
like I said earlier I personally know of top GSD , malis , dutchies and bouviers with incorrect pedigrees , so what history is to believe
many top malinois used to be entered under different names and numbers in the various registries in the past , so its kind of difficult
by malndobe on 13 October 2010 - 18:10
In Europe it's the Belgian Shepherd, with 4 varieties. Groenendal (long hair, all black), Tervuren (long hair brown/black), Laekenois (wire coated brown/black) and Malinois (short haired brown/black). With some other possible colors, ie the Tervuren come in what they call Gray, which isn't the same as a blue-grey but is a fawn that is so light the dog appears grey because of the black tipping on the hairs. Or the Malinois which comes in a recessive blue. A short haired black dog doesn't have a variety name, neither would a wire haired black dog, but both would be possible based on the genetics of the parents. Black and Tan (Rott pattern) have cropped up on occasion also, along with other colors.
In the US, for political reasons (conformation people, the Groens were loosing to the Tervs), they were split into different breeds. So AKC views them just like they would the GSD, Rott, Dobe, etc. Except you can't breed two GSD and get a Rott, but you can breed 2 Malinois and get a Tervuren. Or 2 Tervuren and get a Groenendael. In Europe they have what they call "register as they drop" ie the pups are registered as the variety they are born as. In some registries they only allow same variety breeding, ie Terv to Terv, in other registries they allow inter-variety breeding, ie Terv to Groen. But here, per AKC, two Malinois can only produce Malinois therefore a long-haired (ie Terv) puppy from a Malinois breeding is registered as a Malinois. And can only be used in the Malinois gene pool. Or a solid black dog (ie Groen) from a Terv breeding has to be registered as a Tervuren.
This has all led to some interseting situations in the past, with various requirements for imports, and odd situations occuring such as littermates being imported, but one is a Malinois and one is Tervuren, so now AKC has siblings in their registry, but registered as different breeds. Or the parent is imported after the offspring, and now they have a parent as one breed, and an offspring as another.
Clear as mud?
It's oh so much fun :-)
In the US, for political reasons (conformation people, the Groens were loosing to the Tervs), they were split into different breeds. So AKC views them just like they would the GSD, Rott, Dobe, etc. Except you can't breed two GSD and get a Rott, but you can breed 2 Malinois and get a Tervuren. Or 2 Tervuren and get a Groenendael. In Europe they have what they call "register as they drop" ie the pups are registered as the variety they are born as. In some registries they only allow same variety breeding, ie Terv to Terv, in other registries they allow inter-variety breeding, ie Terv to Groen. But here, per AKC, two Malinois can only produce Malinois therefore a long-haired (ie Terv) puppy from a Malinois breeding is registered as a Malinois. And can only be used in the Malinois gene pool. Or a solid black dog (ie Groen) from a Terv breeding has to be registered as a Tervuren.
This has all led to some interseting situations in the past, with various requirements for imports, and odd situations occuring such as littermates being imported, but one is a Malinois and one is Tervuren, so now AKC has siblings in their registry, but registered as different breeds. Or the parent is imported after the offspring, and now they have a parent as one breed, and an offspring as another.
Clear as mud?
It's oh so much fun :-)
by duke1965 on 13 October 2010 - 19:10
in holland in the early days they registered individual pups , so a part of the litter could be registered as one breed while another part as another breed , now its changed
but you could find certain dogs registered as the father of a dutch shepherd were the same dog was also to be found on a malinois pedigree
this was all in the early 1900 so not of influence now
but there are loads of these things going on everywhere
but you could find certain dogs registered as the father of a dutch shepherd were the same dog was also to be found on a malinois pedigree
this was all in the early 1900 so not of influence now
but there are loads of these things going on everywhere
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