Highly trained home protector or dangerous and unstable? - Page 2

Kids have an innocence about them that adults do not have, kinda of like a person with a mental handicap, I would sure not like it if one of my dogs went after a disabled person, they don't have that guilty fear pouring out of their sweat glands, any normal dog would notice the difference, unless it was trained to attack anything that moves, then I would understand, it's not the bloodline, but how it was trained.

Still, relieved to see he's no relation to any of my bloodlines


Hopefully he can be placed on a nice Island of some sort

Mirasmom, I agree with you. I have to share a family story. When I was less than 6 years old, I remember all these adults upset, and they wanted this dog, but were scared to approach him. I had played with this dog and said to the A/C guy there, (of course I didn't know who he was then) when I saw he was having problems approaching this dog. I said to him,  "You mean you want that dog there? I can get him for you." And then I walked up grabbed him,  walked him over and handed him to them.

My mom told me years later, there was another dog complaint and the A/c upon arrival asked, "Anyone here know if that little girl is around ?"

 

Nothing screams unstable to me.  If a dog is a trained PROTECTION dog, it's simply doing its job.  Wether it's a strange adult male, woman, or a young child, if their job is to protect property or be sent on someone, they will do it.  Protection dogs do not discriminate by the person, if a protection or police dog was sent on a child (theoretically), or not called off when a child enters his territory, then it would bite.  If a dog is guarding his yard, and a child somehow gets it, I would expect it to be bitten.  Yes, it is a big liability, any protection dog is.  If he has 4 live bites and is still alive (not PTS or impounded) then maybe they were tresspassers, we don't know.  If you get a protection dog I would expect the owner would have high secure fencing and signs "dog on premisis" warning others, as well as keeping gates locked and dog always on a leash or put away when people come over.  You don't let a protection dog mingle with guests or hang around free when you're having a party, and the seller is being honest about that.

Doberdoodle,

 What's the point of having a protection dog if it can't be around people? I agree with putting them away during a party, but other than that a PPD should be stable enough to be around people. I understand the kid issue and that shouldn't be taken lightly, however a dog shouldn't aggress towards a child ever. If it does it's going to have several meetings with Jesus to straighten the issue out. The dog you describe is a compound dog.

 Doberdoodle while that may be true.......what if it was a police k9 that was off duty.  We do personal protection with Anubis, we also do a lot of real life situations, but at the same time we can go to town and small children can hug him, play with him, pet him, etc.  THAT is how a dog should be.  Serious when time to work, but can turn off when needed.  He absolutely adores little kids, and I made it a point for him to be more social with children.  He is watchful in public for me, but like any trained protection dog control is a must.  You must be able to keep your dog under control at all times.  If it is on the dogs territory and someone comes in who shouldn't be there......I agree that's expected to bite or protect.  I do agree to not have them out to mingle when a lot of people are over, and I do agree about the whole part on the territory also.  If any people are over I only keep him out if they're friends of mine and he knows them.  I personally would not get a dog like the one being sold if he does not like kids......even as part of the family, I mean seriously?  I think the best dogs should be willing to protect both handler and family, not eat them.

It's opinion, but I think most protection trainers would agree, you don't let people pet your protection or police dog-- as a rule.  Would you let kids touch your gun, then why let them touch (unless it's your own kids that live with the dog) your protection dog.  I cannot imagine going into town and letting kids, or anyone, come up and hug or pet a protection dog, never.  I would only socialize from a distance, as far as teaching the dog "these things are ok, but ignore them, they have nothing to offer you."  I think they should only be handled or touched by immediate family they live with.

I was told by a k9 handler how his dog is great b/c he can hang out and mingle with people or be petted and be great, but how if some fight or ruckus breaks out he can go "into mode," that did not sound good to me at all.  The dog should not want to mingle, and shouldn't need to be turned on by someone yelling or running.  Why one would allow a k9 to be petted at events, I have no idea.

One of my Mals is just trained in sport bitework and I raised her to be a social butterfly, to like meeting people, cause that's what I wanted for her, to be able to turn my back and not worry.  Would she protect me, probably not too well, she's not trained enough for those scenarios.  Not everyone wants a real protection dog, some just want an alert dog, my other Mali I treat as a protection dog nobody touches him, but that comes with knowing he may be a liability and I have to manage him-- not every household can do that well.  Everyones different.

I've met numerous police K9s in my time and while they left me in awe with their work ethic, abilities and responsiveness to their police partner, I would never cold approach a single one of them. 

There is a difference between a dog being neutral in a crowd of people walking around and past him vs alerting to someone walking up to the dog/handler.  Even the two legged office never knows if that approach is simply for directions or something else, how is his canine partner supposed to distinguish?

It's called 'civil' for a reason.

I was at a police K9 seminar one time and the main presenter put his retired K9 partner through his paces to show us some of the training on a street K9 vs say a narcotics only dog.  When they were finished, the K9 was platzed at his partner's side, slightly behind him while the office discussed a point with someone in the crowd.  One of my club members really wanted to ask a question so he started to walk towards the office, coming up *behind* him.

The dog stared firmly at this guy who just kept approaching and when he was within 10 feet the dog came to his feet, faced him and growled.  He didn't attack but the body language and vocalization said clearly that if this guy took another step he was going to get the business end of those teeth.

Was the dog out of control or mentally unbalanced?  No.  He was covering his partner's back from an unknown approach.

I think too often we forget that dogs are not people in fuzzy coats.  If they are trained to be protective of a territory or a person, they are going to follow that training, not sit there and rationalize a decision making process. 

This dog sounds like an expert's dog, pure and simple and kudos to his current owner for making that clear.

Doberdoodle, I only allow kids to pet him in town, and even at that it's not every time we go to town, it's just certain times.  He knows when we're  working or training, or the opposite of that.  As for strangers that are adults I can't remember the last time I let one pet him it has been so long ago. Not to mention he typically shows no interest in adults.  I've told numerous people don't pet him he's in training, or he's a working dog, or whatever so they wouldn't attempt to.  On territory, friends come over and he's fine with them, but they also know the rules.  He's okay with them being there, but isn't craving attention from them (I think you got the idea that he wants everyones attention and I let every Tom, Dick, and Harry pet him). If strangers come over, he's put up, unless someone uninvited shows up who shouldn't be there.  He is very protective of the territory which is fine.  

 

The poster is being honest and in the right situation sounds like a good dog. In the wrong environment very dangerous but doesnt mean not a good or great dog. Sounds like he is doing what was trained to do I wouldnt say unstable but no expert. I have a guy that lives in my neighborhood works for Border patrol. He purchased a Mali that has has 4 or 5 live bites. A few on prev. neighbors and a few on handlers trying to train for work. He is not able to work with him of course because this dog wants to bit handlers attempting to train him. And this is the 1st time I have seen a Mali that was literally fat. And I mean fat. No ribs visible big dog energetic live bitting Mali. But I hear the guy and friends in his backyard doing training on a sleeve not sure if for Schultzund or not.