AKC Variable Surface tracking, TD or TDX tracking - Page 2

Dianne,

The oldest tracks I have worked with my dogs are around 6 hours old, but they were in grass not asphalt.  3 hours on concrete or asphalt is difficult; no doubt.  I am going to try ot this fall for the heck of it.  I am working on it.

Jim

Let me know how it goes.  I am interested in the 6 hour old tracks on grass:  h ow did you introduce them to your dog? I mean how did you jump up your aging? My guy seems fine on 3 hours, so if I wanted to give him a try on older, for fun, what would you say I should jump it? 

Deacon,
I think the tracks without bites in training are really important, otherwise the dog can begin to target everyone he sees on the track.  We don't have any bloodhounds so our Patrol dogs do all of our tracking.  We need to run more "hot tracks" on the street after an unsuccessful track.  Unfortunately for us we can't take our K9 teams off the street for a week, but that is great for training and problem solving.  I am going to recommend that for our unit and see what response I get.  We train one day a week as a unit then also while were working in between calls.  

Diane,
I constantly vary the difficulties on the track.  Depending on what I am working on I will vary age, difficulty, length, food etc.  When I want to increase age on the track I do not increase other factors.  For example, when I go from 30 mins to an hour the track is relatively straight forward and easy.  Then on subsequent tracks I may stay at an hour but increase length or add more turns or loss of track problem solving .  Then I will go to 1 1/2 to 2 hours and work an easier track.  

With an experienced SchH tracking dog I may lay a very difficult track, long and complicated on a hot day and let it age 3 to 4 hours to cause the dog to have trouble and see how the dog works it out or if it will shut down on the track.  If the dog does lay down on the track I have an opportunity to push the dog and the dog learns he has to track.  Shutting down or quitting is not an option on the track.  This is only rarely done and once the dog gets the lesson I really never have to repeat it.  All other tracks are "winners" and confidence boosters.  

I have found that aging a track changes the scent picture to the dog and the dog has to be able to adjust to the age.  Once I have a dog working 3 hour old tracks I will lay an easy, but long, heavily baited track on a cool or cold day and let it age for 5 or 6 hours.  I like to do this when the ants won't be a big factor so winters by me are best.  The age really is not a big problem when the dog is experienced.  I just keep the other variables minimized when working on increasing aging.  I will expect some initial difficulty by the dog until it settles in on the track which is why I keep the tracks a decent length.  I will designed the track so the last leg is also a confidence builder and the dog ends on a high note.  

Jim     

Jim, I've not worked a VST with a dog, but worked along side someone that did. This dog was a very, very motivated and fast tracker through his TDX. VST work was a bit stressful, as it takes a lot of focus and concentration from the dog, being that the hard surfaces are more challenging.

A couple of points I learned from the experience was because it's such an intense thing to train, is to break it up into small pieces and make it easy in the beginning  (like any new thing, right?). Also, location. We worked at schools when out of session and after hours at office parks. This also seemed to give his dog confidence, as the the terrain was broken up with some easier grass/dirt sections and then the more difficult sidewalks, stairs and parking lots inbetween...rather than just all hard surfaces.

Being a seasoned tracking dog, and an extremely motivated tracking dog, he didn't need to use food on the track, but did get rewarded with food/toys/praise when finding articles and at the end of the track as well.

It's a tougher thing to train for, so there aren't many  people doing it and not many dogs are driven/motivated enough either to make it worth it.

I personally think it would be an excellent thing for you and your dog, with your specific applications.

I hope you can write about what you are learning about the VST. I'd love to hear your impressions and what you've found to be helpful in training for it.

Oh and one more thing. It was a challenge to pay attention to things like anti-freeze in the parking lots.  His dog was attracted to the runoff from cars.

Slamdunk;
    Another trick we use is if we are going to give the dog a bite at the end, we place the equipment at the end of the track so that until he hits the scent cone, we know he was only tracking the bad guy.

    On very rare occasions we will toss a sleeve along the track as well. Now that our dogs know the trick they will either go around or right over it without even slowing down any longer.
 
    We employ this method as well on occasions when conducting building searches or open area searches.

Shadylady,
We do a lot of hard surface tracking already.  We typically train "scent discrimination" tracking across hard surfaces and track a specific individuals scent.  Our dogs have been very successful in finding missing persons, lost children and bad guys when we have had a scent article to start with.  We have also been successful starting in a shopping center knowing where the bad guys "staged" before the robbery. 

I think the VST is interesting and want to push our dogs even further and get even more apprehensions.  Right now I'm considering doing all of my tracks in training on Asphalt / concrete with no grass at all.  There is no doubt the dog can do it.  We do break the training tracks up into components especially when problem solving or teaching something new.  I am looking to refine how we train our dogs to track and want to push the envelope even further.  I really enjoy tracking and I think the VST tracking is interesting, it is not exactly what we do with the K9's, but it something that does have applications for us.  I'll keep  you posted.


Deacon,
We do exactly the same thing with the equipment. Either the suit or sleeve is waiting at the end, or we bring the sleeve to the decoy / track layer after the dog has found and indicated on the decoy.  We do the same thing in buildings.  We will bring the sleeve in after the dog has found the decoy and pass it off or use a different entrance to bring the equipment in.  

I have never left a sleeve on the ground on the track, that is very good and I might try that.  We will do some long tracks that end in a building search and the suit is waiting inside for the decoy to put on.  The goal of the exercise is for the dog to track to the right door or building and then get rewarded once inside for the track and locating the decoy.  We will also have the track layer at the end with a toy and reward the dog on most tracks.  

I appreciate the replies,

Jim   

 

Jim,

That is cool to use the dogs in detective work, as in finding where the bad guys were staging before a robbery!

Would you use the VST then as like the cross-training atheletes use to strengthen their overall performance/skill?

It's always interesting to hear about the practical applications of training, as we in the civilian world are mostly training for goals or titles without thinking much about real life situations.