Which Sport Tests... - Page 2

I  know very little if anything about Pit bulls, my experience is with GSD's, Mali's and DS's.  The dogs that I see that really "bring it" are the ones that can really "take it."  I have seen some over the top aggressive animals with a short fuse that will quickly fire off on a person, or in the case of dog aggression go into a rage very quickly.  To me this is often more of a bluff, or an underlying insecurity.  IMO, the dog is saying "Hey, I'm tough you need to watch out."  Of course there are exceptions to this. 

Most of the high flying sport dogs or K9's I see that come in a committed fashion usually can take it, IMO. 

FWIW,

Jim

NVBK is my favorite for testing a dogs will power and perhaps seeing what
he will do in a real life  threatening situation.

Belgium Ring Sport....

 Quote by Malndobe:  "IMO the Ring Sports better test the dogs ability to take it, simply from the sheer amount of time the dog and decoy/helper are interacting, and the freedom the decoy/helper has to work each dog as an individual, vs doing the same moves on every dog. ....
During the time the dog is on the bite, the decoy has the chance to try a number of different things to get in the dogs head and run them. And if they see a weakness, but the dog holds on until the end of the exercise, they can still continue to exploit that in the next exercise until the dog does cave. They aren't required to work each dog the same, so if they see one dog has a problem with the hands, they can really push that, if another has a problem with the stick, they can push that, etc. "


Excellent point.  Can you  break it down to a comparison between two roughly similar exercises between the two sports?

Excellent point. Can you break it down to a comparison between two roughly similar exercises between the two sports?

The Face Attack and the Courage Test.  Both are a down field send, bite, and out.

On the courage test, the helper comes at the dog while it's sent.  They can apply pressure here.  When the dog arrives the goal is to do a safe catch.  Then the dog is driven, hit twice with the stick, and the helper locks up for the out.   During the drive and stick hits pressure is also applied.  From moment of bite to out I think it lasts about 5 seconds. 

An FR face attack can actually look very similar to a Sch courage test, even to the point of the dog biting the arm, but the drive would last 15 seconds and the stick hits would be much more numerous.  The decoy also doesn't freeze until the dog is told to out, so the out is off a moving decoy.   The decoy's charge at the dog is shorter, so less chance for pressure there from the charge.  But there are other options.  The decoy can put down a barrage and keep it there.  To penetrate the barrage and get the bite the dog may be hit in the head/face.   The dog may also be esquived, which means now it has to turn around and come back at the decoy without all the forward momentum it built up coming down the field and still punch through the barrage.  Once (if) finally on the bite the decoy can work the dog in whatever manner they choose (within the rules) for the rest of the 15 seconds.  What sort of pressure they put on the dog at that point depends on the decoy, and the dog.  If the dog has previously shown a weakness the decoy will exploit that.   If the dog barely grabs the decoy, they will do everything they can to keep it from regripping to a better/fuller bite, and if they can get it to slip off, the stick will come down immediately so the dog has to penetrate the barrage again.

FR just allows a longer period of time, and more leeway on the part of the helper/decoy, to get into the dogs head and create a problem. 

I'm not disagreeing with you, but for some dogs, the bite is a release, some a reward, some a sfe spot to hang on. Again, not disagreeing. Just want to point a few things out. More bites do NOT equal more Pressure on the dog. You can do 50 escapes with one dog and 1 courage test with another. Which one has had more pressure put on him? # of bites is irrelevant.

My point about # of bites and time on the bite was that it relates to how much time the decoy/helper has to put pressure on the dog.  Simple fact, "Fred" can't put the pressure on a dog in 5 seconds that he can in 10.  Doesn't mean he can't put a LOT of pressure on a dog in those 5, but I'm sure we have all seen dogs that are "this close" to bailing, but manage to hang on until the "bell rings".  Give "Fred" a little bit longer, and that dog would have been out of there.   Obviously if Fred isn't putting any pressure on the dog, then how long the bite is really doesn't matter, not for this discussion.

I understood what you were writing. I said I wasn't disagreeing. Just pointing out that the number of bites by itself isn't relevant to testing a dog. People think that all bites are putting pressure on a dog, when in fact it can be quite the opposite. Not to argue your point, but I've also seen some dogs that don't want to come off for fear of battle. To some it is safer on the sleeve or suit.

Hey Don REALLY good to see you back, many of us have sorely missed you.

Good to be back, I think? Been busy! I went on that world tour I always talked about. I'm trying to save every woman from that dreaded illness called virginity. It's sad to see the look in their eyes. The horror...the horror...the horror.

oooppps ( as I spew my mouthful of Red raspberry tea all over my computor screen)


You would make a good   Comedy Club owner!  Don  the Man!

I saw the list for the awards for Sundays ceremony and I don't like any of them...in the Comedy list , that is.


YR