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by VonIsengard on 09 July 2010 - 03:07
I prefer for a decoy to not correct my dog in any way, including swatting feet. I'm the handler, and my dog knows it. Everyone else has given great advice, nothing I can add to it but to agree.
by Doberdoodle on 09 July 2010 - 03:07
Police dogs don't pull like they're tugging someones sleeve off or trying to win the sleeve and run away with it, they push in and they wrap up
by VonIsengard on 09 July 2010 - 03:07
Although that might be convenient- apprehend, then retrieve! 
by sueincc on 09 July 2010 - 04:07
Dobberdoodle you said:
" There is really no valid reason for a biting dog to keep his paws off the helper. It's a Schutzhund thing. PP dogs, police dogs, and any good protection dog puts paws on or wraps up, a good protection dog should be pushing in, NOT pulling. "
These blanket statements are simply not true. In schutzhund a dog can put his feet on the helper, but he must not have his feet on the helper when the helper freezes. There can valid reasons, with particular dogs, why the helper wants a dogs feet off him during training. Also not all good protection dogs do any one thing. There are some dogs who's style is to pull, but just because they are pulling does not mean they want to "run away with the sleeve". Some dogs want to stop the decoy, some counter by pulling, and some push, but to say good dogs only do one thing is not correct.
" There is really no valid reason for a biting dog to keep his paws off the helper. It's a Schutzhund thing. PP dogs, police dogs, and any good protection dog puts paws on or wraps up, a good protection dog should be pushing in, NOT pulling. "
These blanket statements are simply not true. In schutzhund a dog can put his feet on the helper, but he must not have his feet on the helper when the helper freezes. There can valid reasons, with particular dogs, why the helper wants a dogs feet off him during training. Also not all good protection dogs do any one thing. There are some dogs who's style is to pull, but just because they are pulling does not mean they want to "run away with the sleeve". Some dogs want to stop the decoy, some counter by pulling, and some push, but to say good dogs only do one thing is not correct.
by judron55 on 09 July 2010 - 11:07
I'm also completely against feet hitting....though my bitch will sometimes put her feet on the sleeve. Grips are grips and feet have nothing to do with it...some dogs like using there feet....it definitely is a schutzhund thing:-)
by judron55 on 09 July 2010 - 11:07
I'm also completely against feet hitting....though my bitch will sometimes put her feet on the sleeve. Grips are grips and feet have nothing to do with it...some dogs like using there feet....it definitely is a schutzhund thing:-)
by sueincc on 09 July 2010 - 12:07
You and I will have to agree to disagree on this one, Ron. Many, many dogs use their feet on the helper in reattacks. The ONLY time this is a problem is when the helper stops moving, then the dog better damn well take his feet off the helper.
by judron55 on 09 July 2010 - 12:07
when the helper stops moving, then the dog better damn well take his feet off the helper.
ron writes: where do we disagree.........on the out feet off....no problem...any other time feet are fine:-)
ron writes: where do we disagree.........on the out feet off....no problem...any other time feet are fine:-)
by Slamdunc on 09 July 2010 - 13:07
Doberdoodle,
Police dogs don't pull like they're tugging someones sleeve off or trying to win the sleeve and run away with it, they push in and they wrap up
I have a different opinion in regards to this, it depends on the situation. If the dog takes a bad guy down or apprehends someone on the ground, IMO pulling is fine and may even be safer for the dog. My dog has tried to drag a guy across a parking lot, I think he was trying to get him behind a car or into the bushes and ravish him all by himself. We have had dogs apprehend suspects under crawl spaces and wrapping is not safe there. We actually train our dogs to drag or pull the suspect back to our position of cover in certain situations. If we send the dog into a house and there may be several suspects the first guy apprehended by the dog is dragged back to our position and dealt with on our terms where we are safe. Then we continue to clear the house, covertly and systematically until it is safe. If my dog has an arm or a leg, I want the dog to bite hard, fight hard and pull the suspect off balance and keep himself out of reach of the other limbs. This helps avoid the dog being hit, stabbed or kicked in the fight.
It really depends on the circumstances, for a police dog I want it to engage, hold on and fight. Fighting styles vary between dogs depending on the situations they are in and the dogs temperament. I personally don't care if the dog pushes, pulls, or wraps as long as it stays in the fight.
JMO FWIW,
Jim
Police dogs don't pull like they're tugging someones sleeve off or trying to win the sleeve and run away with it, they push in and they wrap up
I have a different opinion in regards to this, it depends on the situation. If the dog takes a bad guy down or apprehends someone on the ground, IMO pulling is fine and may even be safer for the dog. My dog has tried to drag a guy across a parking lot, I think he was trying to get him behind a car or into the bushes and ravish him all by himself. We have had dogs apprehend suspects under crawl spaces and wrapping is not safe there. We actually train our dogs to drag or pull the suspect back to our position of cover in certain situations. If we send the dog into a house and there may be several suspects the first guy apprehended by the dog is dragged back to our position and dealt with on our terms where we are safe. Then we continue to clear the house, covertly and systematically until it is safe. If my dog has an arm or a leg, I want the dog to bite hard, fight hard and pull the suspect off balance and keep himself out of reach of the other limbs. This helps avoid the dog being hit, stabbed or kicked in the fight.
It really depends on the circumstances, for a police dog I want it to engage, hold on and fight. Fighting styles vary between dogs depending on the situations they are in and the dogs temperament. I personally don't care if the dog pushes, pulls, or wraps as long as it stays in the fight.
JMO FWIW,
Jim
by sueincc on 09 July 2010 - 14:07
Sorry Ron, I misunderstood what you wrote. 
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